braeburn apples
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suzy's clevedon cider
Dec 1, 2012, 2:40:55 PM12/1/12
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hi all
i have read a few posts on here, in particular one from stephen hays that these apples (braeburn) on their own will make a dastardly thin acidic reedy cider. i am using some i bought just to test juice extraction from a juicer & a press.
does anyone have any tips as to how it could be made drinkable? (other than having it american style)
cheers
rich
lightweightmick
Dec 1, 2012, 4:08:29 PM12/1/12
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Not familiar with Braeburn, but if you can eat them comfortably...(?)
I'd go for some more acid (Bramley Seedlings are still out there), and
then some crab apples (there's plenty still out there hiding under the
leaves!) - say, roughly (%) 60 of your Braeburns, 20 (this I would
usually consider too high for these but what other choice do you have
now?) - and 20 of crabs depending on how 'mouth-puckering' they are.
This will give you a much more balanced cider - IMO, of course. I
think it's a good thing to forget 'names' and go on flavours. Sugar
content is an easy one, sharpness again is straightforward - think
'eaters and cookers'. 'Mouth puckeriness' tannins are less easy to
gauge but mosr desirable for flavour in your finished cider! Hope this
helps.
cheers
lwm
jez....@btinternet.com
Dec 1, 2012, 4:12:07 PM12/1/12
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???
Well, Braeburn isn't going to give you much but acid (taste it and try to imagine what its going to be like without any sugar left!)
What you need is something with interesting flavour profiles. If you can get some bittersweets then great, although some crabs may help (try them first). Failing that, try and get something that will make a more interesting cider at the end...
All the best
Jez
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Well, Braeburn isn't going to give you much but acid (taste it and try to imagine what its going to be like without any sugar left!)
What you need is something with interesting flavour profiles. If you can get some bittersweets then great, although some crabs may help (try them first). Failing that, try and get something that will make a more interesting cider at the end...
All the best
Jez
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richard marlborough
Dec 1, 2012, 4:23:37 PM12/1/12
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hi jez
i can't seem to get hold of apples at any price (clevedon north somerset). i have some fermenting juice made with local unknown cider apples. i can't say how this will turn out so should i just gamble & blend my fermented braeburn & some stage?
none of this juice is for commercial consumption & at the moment i'm "i made it so i will drink it & like it"
what you said about the taste without the sugar i think may be horribly true!
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lightweightmick
Dec 1, 2012, 4:27:19 PM12/1/12
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Braeburns may be more of an acidic 'eater' than I thought, re Jez's
post... I usually have a good source of Golden Delicious (not a oner
this year though...) - which are very bland on their own but good for
bulk in providing sugar - if so I would miss out the Bramey advice and
just go for the crabs... If you are looking to a regular annual supply
it would be a good thing to make up a few 5 litre batches of different
mixes - including a single variety just so you know - keep a record -
it's a good learning curve! Nothing is ever wasted as an acid cider is
great for cooking!
post... I usually have a good source of Golden Delicious (not a oner
this year though...) - which are very bland on their own but good for
bulk in providing sugar - if so I would miss out the Bramey advice and
just go for the crabs... If you are looking to a regular annual supply
it would be a good thing to make up a few 5 litre batches of different
mixes - including a single variety just so you know - keep a record -
it's a good learning curve! Nothing is ever wasted as an acid cider is
great for cooking!
richard marlborough
Dec 1, 2012, 4:30:04 PM12/1/12
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hi
i can't get hold of any more apples at the moment but i do have some fermenting juice that may fit the profile you have outlined. i am looking for advice as to whether to blend my braeburn juice to this.
it's unfortunate because i did add some malic acid to some juice that had a high ph. i could of maybe added this juice!
Andrew Lea
Dec 1, 2012, 5:00:44 PM12/1/12
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Getting the acid balance right is the most important thing you can do.
Braeburns are insipid after fermentation and also high in acid. You will
do yourself a favour if you can blend with low acid cider apples (not
all cider apples are, but the bittersweets are low acid by definition).
It is unfortunate that you have already acidified your cider apple
juice, but almost certainly it will be better to blend the Braeburns
with them anyway. You could though ferment them on their own and do the
blending on the final ciders which makes it easier to judge the
proportions you need.
If you have the ability to measure titratable acid, you are ideally
looking for a final blend around 5 g/L (0.5%) of acid as malic. If you
live in Clevedon that is. If you live in Nottinghamshire you might go up
to 7 g/L.
Andrew
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Braeburns are insipid after fermentation and also high in acid. You will
do yourself a favour if you can blend with low acid cider apples (not
all cider apples are, but the bittersweets are low acid by definition).
It is unfortunate that you have already acidified your cider apple
juice, but almost certainly it will be better to blend the Braeburns
with them anyway. You could though ferment them on their own and do the
blending on the final ciders which makes it easier to judge the
proportions you need.
If you have the ability to measure titratable acid, you are ideally
looking for a final blend around 5 g/L (0.5%) of acid as malic. If you
live in Clevedon that is. If you live in Nottinghamshire you might go up
to 7 g/L.
Andrew
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richard marlborough
Dec 1, 2012, 6:00:59 PM12/1/12
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thanks andrew
i will try to do this as these are practice batches & i want to get a hang on the more complex bits. i have drunk hundreds of white wines over the last 20 years & there are only 5 or so that i like. i have drunk 20 or so "proper" ciders recently & they all seem at least ok to me. much better than a poor white wine.
for this lot i think i will end up doing the blending on the final ciders as you suggest
many thanks
rich
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richard marlborough
Dec 1, 2012, 6:08:26 PM12/1/12
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hi
i think this would do it perfect but i just can't get any apples round here (clevedon) at any price!
we have a 1903 map of clevedon & my house is surrounded by dozens of orchards but sadly nothing now. i have planted 9 cider & perry trees in my garden so at least we will have some of our own fruit in years to come.
cheers
rich
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Andrew Lea
Dec 1, 2012, 6:26:02 PM12/1/12
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Well 30 years ago North Somerset was awash with cider apples, at places
like Wraxall, Backwell, Tyntesfield, Nailsea, Yatton, Sandford,
Congresbury, Kingston Seymour .... to name just a few. I cannot believe
they've all disappeared. I know it's getting late in the season now but
maybe a quick letter to the Clevedon Mercury or to a local Freecycle
group would get you a few?
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like Wraxall, Backwell, Tyntesfield, Nailsea, Yatton, Sandford,
Congresbury, Kingston Seymour .... to name just a few. I cannot believe
they've all disappeared. I know it's getting late in the season now but
maybe a quick letter to the Clevedon Mercury or to a local Freecycle
group would get you a few?
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richard marlborough
Dec 2, 2012, 7:40:18 AM12/2/12
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hi andrew
no apples in clevedon, yatton or kingston seymour. there are a few trees but all picked & cleared. unfortunately the famous clevedon mercury is no more, it has been merged with a weston paper, i'll try them. there is a freecycle group, i'll place an add.
cheers
rich
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Cheshire Matt
Dec 2, 2012, 7:48:20 AM12/2/12
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When trying to get local press interested, write the entire story
yourself. They do like local interest - but the small-time hacks love
it even more if they don't have to do the donkey work and can just
phone you up to ask your age, occupation and create an amusing
headline. All this I know...
If you were otherside of Mendips and it had an entertainment slant, I'd drop the entz ed of Wells Journal a line - best mates in a band with him back at school :) #mostpatheticnamedropever
If you were otherside of Mendips and it had an entertainment slant, I'd drop the entz ed of Wells Journal a line - best mates in a band with him back at school :) #mostpatheticnamedropever
richard marlborough
Dec 2, 2012, 12:25:59 PM12/2/12
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hi all
i got 71% yield on my latest experiment with braeburn & i have a juice of ph3.2 & brix of 11. i will be hunting for apples to blend but i don't hold out much hope.
if i can't get proper apples what would you guys think about adding powdered wine tannin? & how much per gallon if it was a good idea?
cheers
rich
richard marlborough
Dec 2, 2012, 12:30:33 PM12/2/12
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sorry this is off topic but what did you play?
rich
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Andrew Lea
Dec 2, 2012, 12:35:42 PM12/2/12
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Frankly I wouldn't bother. I think that Braeburn lack far more than just
tannin so far as cidermaking is concerned. And 'tannin' from home brew
shops is pretty cheap and nasty when all's said and done. And if I did
add it, I do it very carefully after fermentation anyway.
Why don't you forget cider, and bottle and pasteurise the Braeburn (or
freeze it) as straight apple juice instead. It'll be much more enjoyable
that way.
Andrew
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tannin so far as cidermaking is concerned. And 'tannin' from home brew
shops is pretty cheap and nasty when all's said and done. And if I did
add it, I do it very carefully after fermentation anyway.
Why don't you forget cider, and bottle and pasteurise the Braeburn (or
freeze it) as straight apple juice instead. It'll be much more enjoyable
that way.
Andrew
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Cheshire Matt
Dec 2, 2012, 1:31:43 PM12/2/12
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Mostly 80's covers, badly, on keys. Ken was rhythm guitar.
richard marlborough
Dec 2, 2012, 1:55:25 PM12/2/12
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hi andrew
many thanks, this is what i wanted to know. i will make it into "cider" just so i know where i am starting from. i want to practice racking, sweetening b4 bottling to get a fizz, etc so i may as well have a go on this crud. i should have some proper apples for next year.
thanks rich
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Andrew Lea
Dec 2, 2012, 2:19:07 PM12/2/12
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Oh I see. Probably not such a bad idea then if you need to practice the 'unit operations'. And you can play with the effect of eg sugar vs splenda to back off that acid when your cider is done. All good experience!
Andrew
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Trevor FitzJohn
Dec 2, 2012, 7:50:16 PM12/2/12
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Here is a quote from Wikipaedia.
"It is believed to have been discovered as a chance seedling in 1952 by the farmer O. Moran from Waiwhero in the Moutere Hills near Motueka, New Zealand. It was cultivated by the nursery Williams Brothers to export this variety of apple. It is thought to be a cross between Granny Smith and Lady Hamilton.The apple itself is named after Braeburn Orchard where it was first commercially grown."
The Braeburn is a New Zealand apple and as expected from its pedigree is acidic flavoursome and a really nice apple to eat but not recomended for cider due to its lack of tannins.
"It is believed to have been discovered as a chance seedling in 1952 by the farmer O. Moran from Waiwhero in the Moutere Hills near Motueka, New Zealand. It was cultivated by the nursery Williams Brothers to export this variety of apple. It is thought to be a cross between Granny Smith and Lady Hamilton.The apple itself is named after Braeburn Orchard where it was first commercially grown."
The Braeburn is a New Zealand apple and as expected from its pedigree is acidic flavoursome and a really nice apple to eat but not recomended for cider due to its lack of tannins.
Dougal
Dec 2, 2012, 10:35:29 PM12/2/12
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How much of NZ cider is made from Braeburn apple juice / concentrate, do you reckon, Trevor? 80%?
It sounds like it is the Bramley of the Southern Hemisphere! No wonder our NZ cider is, in the main, pretty poor.
Trevor FitzJohn
Dec 2, 2012, 10:46:49 PM12/2/12
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Not sure.I suspect anything not selling well will go into concentrate. Jazz is the new kid on the block so Braeburn our biggest export variety 10 years ago with a large planted acreage may well be it. Gala is still a strong seller and probably the largest at present.
Trevor FitzJohn
Chairman : Pacific Radiology Ltd
99 Rintoul Street : Newtown : Wellington 6021
PO Box 7168 : Wellington 6242 : New Zealand
Cell + 64 21 483 959
Fax + 64 4 978 5571 (work)
Fax +64 4 385 8037 (home)
Email trevor....@prg.co.nz
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Trevor FitzJohn
Chairman : Pacific Radiology Ltd
99 Rintoul Street : Newtown : Wellington 6021
PO Box 7168 : Wellington 6242 : New Zealand
Cell + 64 21 483 959
Fax + 64 4 978 5571 (work)
Fax +64 4 385 8037 (home)
Email trevor....@prg.co.nz
Web www.pacificradiology.co.nz
richard marlborough
Aug 10, 2013, 3:18:25 PM8/10/13
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hi andrew,
i followed the method in your book to make a sparkling cider from these braeburn apples. i added 45g sugar with 45ml water per gallon b4 bottle conditioning. i bottled it in recycled cider bottles with a crown cap. it was pressed on 15/12/12 & bottled on 7/7/13.
it tastes nothing whatsoever like a west country cider, no tannin that i can detect. However, it is sparkling, fruity and very drinkable in a dry white wine kind of way. my eldest son is only young (23) & drinks thatchers gold like most of the young uns round here, but he likes it & took a few bottles for his mates. do you think it will mellow over time & when (if ever) do you think it would be at its best?
i visited john harris @ west croft farm in brent knoll. have you been there? if so would you say this a typical west country cider? (janets jungle juice)
best regards
rich
Andrew Lea
Aug 11, 2013, 3:11:18 AM8/11/13
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On 10/08/2013 20:18, richard marlborough wrote:
>
> [Braeburn cider] do you think it will mellow over time
young and fruity as it is now. It will never develop tannins since it
does not have any. If it is rather high in acid, some months in bottle
may soften this if a malo-lactic ferment takes place, but overall that
just might lead to dullness rather than added interest and complexity.
>
> i visited john harris @ west croft farm in brent knoll. have you been
> there? if so would you say this a typical west country cider? (janets
> jungle juice)
I have never tried this product so cannot express an opinion. It gets a
favourable write-up on Cider Pages
http://ciderpages.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/west-croft-janets-jungle-juice-gbbf.html
Andrew
>
> [Braeburn cider] do you think it will mellow over time
> & when (if ever) do you think it would be at its best?
I have never made a cider from Braeburn but I suspect it is best drunk
young and fruity as it is now. It will never develop tannins since it
does not have any. If it is rather high in acid, some months in bottle
may soften this if a malo-lactic ferment takes place, but overall that
just might lead to dullness rather than added interest and complexity.
>
> i visited john harris @ west croft farm in brent knoll. have you been
> there? if so would you say this a typical west country cider? (janets
> jungle juice)
favourable write-up on Cider Pages
http://ciderpages.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/west-croft-janets-jungle-juice-gbbf.html
Andrew
Alan Stone
Aug 11, 2013, 5:03:54 AM8/11/13
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John Harris at Westcroft is an excellent cider maker. JJJ is his medium and is often a very fruity Dabinet orientated cider / he tries to achieve the sweetness naturally through multiple racking. I would not say it is really typical of the West Country. The other week I got some of his dry from him
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Alan Stone
Aug 11, 2013, 5:05:28 AM8/11/13
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Whoops - his dry was a really excellent complex tasting West Country cider / even better than the excellent JJJ
Alan
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richard marlborough
Aug 11, 2013, 6:27:20 AM8/11/13
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thanks andrew
i'll leave one for 6 months & 1 for 9 months & drink the rest now. i'll let you know what happens.(not a lot i suspect!)
i would agree with the taster in the article, although the cider i tasted was slightly sparkling.
best regards
rich
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richard marlborough
Aug 11, 2013, 6:33:13 AM8/11/13
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hi alan
the cider i tasted was very complex. i intend to visit as many cider producers as possible. i've got a copy of ciderland by james crowden & there are loads of places to visit close-ish to me. (clevedon)
cheers
rich
Andrew Lea
Aug 11, 2013, 7:08:32 AM8/11/13
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Alan might be too modest to mention this but his own book on Somerset cider makers would also be a very useful complement to James' lyrical essays.
Andrew
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