[Cider Workshop] Building a rack and cloth press

[Richard]

I'm at the planning stage of building myself a rack and cloth press
similar to the one on Andrews cider org site. I've got two queries;
1. Can I use oak to build the racks or would acacia be more suitable?
2. I'm hoping to use a screw thread for the means of pressing the
cheese and I see Axminster tools sell a vice screw, but I don't think
its long enough . Any one know of suppliers who sell a longer acme
style screw thread?
Thanks.
Rich.....P.s Happy birthday cider workshop, you have been a great
source of information.

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[Claude Jolicoeur]

Richard wrote:
> I'm at the planning stage of building myself a rack and cloth press
> similar to the one on Andrews cider org site. I've got two queries;
> 1. Can I use oak to build the racks or would acacia be more suitable?
> 2. I'm hoping to use a screw thread for the means of pressing the
> cheese

Any reason you don't want to use a hydraulic jack? In my opinion, they
are less expensive, easier to use, and provide more pressure. Since I
started using one, I wouldn't want to go back to screw...
See: http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf/ApplePress
for an example of small press with a hydraulic jack.

For the racks, I think any type of hard wood is fine.

Claude

[Mansfield, Damian]

I'm having problems sourcing the press cloth, the so called "cheese
cloths" here a very flimsy
And almost like tissue paper.

Damian

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[Richard]

Claude,
I see your point about hydraulic jacks and it may well be that I take
that route but according to vigo ,their rack and cloth press produces
12 tonnes of pressure. I'll check those pics when I'm back home (works
computer wont let me)
Cheers
Rich...

[Andrew Lea]

You might be able to import them, from Vigo in the UK, or from other
suppliers who can cut to order (there was a long discussion here last
year if you search the archives
http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop/topics?hl=en on the topic
'press cloths').

Otherwise people here use plain weave 'net curtain' material which is
surely stronger than cheese muslin and lasts a few seasons.

As for racks, again a search of our archived discussions will show that
slatted racks per se are not necessary although the design is
traditional. Many people now use semi-rigid and impermeable plastic
sheets with routed or moulded channels cut to allow the juice a way out.
A pack press is really a stack of many little independent presses - they
do not actually have to be interconnected. Juice flows out from the
sides, not through the body of the stack.

Andrew

On 20/05/2010 04:16, Mansfield, Damian wrote:
> I'm having problems sourcing the press cloth, the so called "cheese
> cloths" here a very flimsy
> And almost like tissue paper.
>
> Damian

[Mansfield, Damian]

In Andrews rather excellent book, the process is called "erroneously
chapitalisation".

Is there actually a correct chapitalisation out there?

Damian

This e-mail and files transmitted with it are privileged and
confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The
confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost
or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you
received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or
take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify the Department
of Agriculture and Food, WA immediately by return e-mail to the
sender; (c) please delete the original e-mail. Department of
Agriculture and Food WA

[Andrew Lea]

On 20/05/2010 07:33, Mansfield, Damian wrote:
>
> In Andrews rather excellent book, the process is called "erroneously
> chapitalisation".
>
> Is there actually a correct chapitalisation out there?

Yes. It's covered on page 59 (sorry no index but there will be one in
the reprint and I'll post it on the website too).

True chaptalisation is the increase of SG by a small amount in years
when the natural sugar levels are too low to provide sufficient alcohol
levels for good storage. The term is named after a 19th century French
chemist named Chaptal who introduced the concept into the cool climate
European wine industry where it is still use under very strict licence
and control. It was never intended to mean the wholesale doubling of SG
with sugar syrups to produce high alcohol bases for later dilution with
water (glucose wines).

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Richard wrote:
> Claude,
> I see your point about hydraulic jacks and it may well be that I take
> that route but according to vigo ,their rack and cloth press produces
> 12 tonnes of pressure.

Richard, as a mechanical engineer, I think that Vigo claim about 12
tons is greatly exagerated.
I have done screw calculations and if that screw on the Vigo press is
1 inch diameter and if it has a ball end bearing to reduce the
friction (but this isn't at all clear from the picture), it is
concievable that it could get to 4 tons. In practice, I doubt this
screw delivers any more than 2 tons.
Another point, looking at the frame of the Vigo press, there is no way
it would resist 12 tons! In particular the pin that holds the top
cross member would never resist that load. I think someone made a
mistake somewhere along the road and added the "1" in front of the
"2"!

For your information, the basic screw formula for a normal friction
coefficient of 0.15 is:
T = 0.2 F d
where T is the torque applied, F is the axial force and d is the
diameter of the screw. From this equation, you would need to apply a
torque of 400 foot-pounds to get a axial force of 12 tons! Which is
just unthinkable. If you have ever used a torque wrench, you know that
a torque of 100 foot-pounds is pretty close to the maximum a normal
person can apply.

[Ray Blockley]

Claude wrote:
> I have done screw calculations and if that screw on the Vigo press is
> 1 inch diameter and if it has a ball end bearing to reduce the
> friction (but this isn't at all clear from the picture), it is

> conceivable that it could get to 4 tons. In practice, I doubt this

> screw delivers any more than 2 tons.

Just to help get the full picture, I've been and measured the thread on my
Vigo rack and cloth press:
External diameter of thread: 1 7/16ths" or 36.5 mm (measured with vernier
calipers).
No ball bearing at end of thread. It is flat and polished (chromed?), and
bears on a brass bush set inside the cast iron plate on the press plate.
Food grade grease is supplied in a small tub for the thread and base-plate
bearing surface.

From my point of view, if I was building my own press again, I would always
go for hydraulic power.

Cheers,
Ray.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claude Jolicoeur" <cj...@gmc.ulaval.ca>
To: "Cider Workshop" <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:39 PM
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Building a rack and cloth press


> Richard wrote:
>> Claude,
>> I see your point about hydraulic jacks and it may well be that I take
>> that route but according to vigo ,their rack and cloth press produces
>> 12 tonnes of pressure.
>
> Richard, as a mechanical engineer, I think that Vigo claim about 12
> tons is greatly exagerated.

[Nat West]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Ray Blockley <raybl...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

From my point of view, if I was building my own press again, I would always go for hydraulic power.

Hydraulic power and steel, like Alan Yelvington and I have built. We've repurposed 20-ton shop presses with great success:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harbor+freight+cider+press

His whole kit uses more store-bought bits. I built racks from oak with epoxy resin coating, he bought HDPE. I stitched cloths from the fabric store, he bought from Goodnature. We both bought collection trays from US Plastics. And we both used uni-strut and plywood for the pressing platforms. Either of us can offer more detailed information if you're interested. I have been meaning to do a proper write-up like Alan's done with his videos. I did keep track of my total costs for parts, about $500.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

[Dick Dunn]

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 03:06:15PM -0700, Richard wrote:
> I'm at the planning stage of building myself a rack and cloth press
> similar to the one on Andrews cider org site. I've got two queries;
> 1. Can I use oak to build the racks or would acacia be more suitable?

Acacia is suitable and used for some commercially-sold racks.

White oak is good (NOT red oak), keeping in mind that it will contribute
a bit of character--like a touch of barrel.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Ray Blockley wrote:
> Just to help get the full picture, I've been and measured the thread on my
> Vigo rack and cloth press:
> External diameter of thread: 1 7/16ths" or 36.5 mm (measured with vernier
> calipers).
> No ball bearing at end of thread. It is flat and polished (chromed?), and
> bears on a brass bush set inside the cast iron plate on the press plate.
> Food grade grease is supplied in a small tub for the thread and base-plate
> bearing surface.

Well, it seems they did a bit of work to reduce friction, which is a
good point. This would improve a bit the torque-load formula, to maybe
T = 0.16 F d
Note this is approximative - the exact formulation would use the
number of threads per inch and need more exact friction coefficient,
but it is accurate enough for our needs.

So, with this updated data (now that we know the diameter of the
screw), we can calculate the torque needed to get a load of 4 tons to
be 153 foot-pounds. This is a lot more than the torque required for
your car tyre bolts for example... And the feet of the press are
better be well bolted to the floor if one is to apply such a torque to
the screw... You would also need a longer handle (which acts as a
lever).
So, I will keep my first impression - I don't think this press
delivers much more than 2 tons of load.

Plus, consider that a hydraulic jack costs very little (here in
Canada, about 15$ for 4 tons, 25$ for 12 tons), and is ready to use.
Just the screw will cost more than that, and you will have to do some
welding to fix a handle on it and to weld the nut on a plate before
you can use it. The only disadvantage of the hydraulic jack is that
the stroke is limited, and I have to retract the jack in the middle of
the run, add some wood blocks and start again - a minor inconvenient.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Richard wrote:
> 1. Can I use oak to build the racks or would acacia be more suitable?

I have added a picture of how I build my racks. See:
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf/ApplePress#5474300849573979922

I also wrote a legend that explains how I do it.

Hope this may help...
Claude

[Andrew Lea]

On 23/05/2010 04:31, Claude Jolicoeur wrote:
> Richard wrote:
>> 1. Can I use oak to build the racks or would acacia be more suitable?
>
> I have added a picture of how I build my racks. See:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf/ApplePress#5474300849573979922
>
> I also wrote a legend that explains how I do it.

So if I understand this right, Claude, your racks are not permeable
because they are based on solid ply with juice channels added in? That
is certainly much easier than making the traditional slatted pattern. Neat!

Andrew


--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Andrew Lea wrote:
> So if I understand this right, Claude, your racks are not permeable
> because they are based on solid ply with juice channels added in? That
> is certainly much easier than making the traditional slatted pattern.  Neat!

Yes, and they work well, the juice flows freely in the gap between the
wood slats. And I like that this is a no-screw design. The bottom rack
however is built differently, more like a trellis, as can be seen on
this picture with the juice tray
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf/ApplePress#5474487947154909810

However, I think it could be the same design as the others without any
inconvenience. At the limit, probably the wood slats could be glued
directly on the tray and it would be fine also - and it would give
more rigitity to the tray.

As of the tray, it is a 3/4 plywood (19mm) with the sides in 1x2
softwood (pine if I remember well).
Claude

[Mansfield, Damian]

Claude

VERY helpful, thanks.

What do use for varnish?

Is there anything to look for or to avoid?

Damian

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Claude Jolicoeur

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Mansfield, Damian wrote:
> VERY helpful, thanks.
> What do use for varnish?
> Is there anything to look for or to avoid?
> Damian

In my opinion, any floor or furniture varnish is OK. Here in Canada,
varnish has to be child-safe, i.e. if a baby puts a piece of varnished
furniture in his mouth it must be harmless... And I would assume it is
the same everywhere. I normally look for the most resistant type,
which always is the high gloss. Also, I always manage to finish the
varnish work at least a month before use to make sure there is no odor
left, as some take a long time to cure completely. I usually apply
about 5 coats.
Claude

[from Heather]

For all the help everyone gave me last spring on building a press, I thought I would show you how it all went.

It cost about $200 out of pocket, but that is only because I had a wonderful father who had a lot of the lumber already on hand, which I'm guessing would have cost another $200 with labor. He even managed to find an old wooden bread board to use (don't know if you have them in the UK, but our kitchens usually have a large board built into the cupboards that slides in and out for cutting bread on). The downside to everything - well, the racks are 12" wide, so someday I'm going to want a bigger press...

For those of you who have sharp eyes and notice the double stream coming out, yes, that is a design flaw in that we rounded the edges of the tray hole, which resulted in the juice trickling down the bottom of the tray and over to the platform. I have that fixed now with a food grade hose shoved up in the hole, but I don't have a picture of it.

Oh, and the bucket is a fun little find - the local grocery store bakeries don't make their own frosting/icing (the sugar crust stuff on the outside of cakes), as it is sent to them in 4 gallon buckets. They toss them out, so all I have to do is go ask for them, as they are food grade. I use them for everything - some are dedicated for picking, others for pulp, and then catching juice. All free.

So thank you everyone for your great advice! The pressing season has been going great!

Heather

[Ray Blockley]

Excellent stuff Heather. That is a fine looking press. Can't wait to hear how your first ciders turn out.

 

Ray.
http://hucknallciderco.blogspot.com/
http://torkardcider.moonfruit.com/

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