cider variety vigour

[Neil Clapperton]

I am trying to be scientific about spacing trees in an intensive orchard, and would like to know how vigorous the cider varieties are.  There is a list (US I think) of mostly domestic varieties  grading vigour T1 (small trees), T2 (average) and T3 (large to very large), but very few cider varieties are mentioned.  Has anyone done the hard work of grading and compiling a comprehensive list of cider varieties along the same or similar lines?  It would save me a few evenings online ...

Kind regards

Neil

[Les Price]

It would probably simply things to know which varieties your talking about?  Or at least..... old world traditional or north American?

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[Neil Clapperton]

Hi Les, it's primarily English and French cider bitter sharps and bittersweets.  Sorry, I should have said.  The only US cider variety I have that doesn't have a vigour rating is Hewe's Crab.

Kind regards

Neil

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[Dave Fulton]

Neil,

There was some of that covered in Ray Williams book for the University of Bristol (https://www.worldcat.org/title/cider-and-juice-apples-growing-and-processing/oclc/41921691) but that focused on about 12 varieties (also taking into account the rootstock and quality of the farmland into consideration). Probably the best bet for English cider apples is https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30620344867&cm_sp=SEARCHREC-_-WIDGET-L-_-BDP-F&searchurl=an%3Dmorgan%26sortby%3D17%26tn%3Dapple. It has a short section on 50 or so cider varieties at the back of the book and details their vigor with a similar T1 to T3 scale as your American source. 

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[Neil Clapperton]

Thanks Dave, I've ordered the second book and waiting with bated breath.

Kind regards

Neil

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[David Pickering]

Somewhat belatedly - just about finished harvesting fruit here in Oz!

Some notes I put together for at presentation at a cider conference in Batlow back in 2013. The presentation was aimed at helping those who wanted to develop an ‘even’ orchard:  ie trying to match rootstock vigour and scion vigour such that the resultant trees are approximately the same size. In this way it’s feasible to standardise row spacing and between tree spacing without building-in gaps and without having to resort to size control by severe pruning.

All the varieties quoted here were grafted onto MM106 rootstock so that aspect was standardised and the vigour variation could be attributed to the scion variety. The list is incomplete as regards the cider varieties in Australia but it will take a few more years yet to assess the varieties more recently introduced to the orchard.

Scion vigour
	note that the scion has it's own vigour characteristics
	independent of the rootstock
“LARGE”	Improved Foxwhelp
	Somerset Redstreak		Sweet Alford
	Breakwells Seedling		Blanchet
			Antoinette
			Cimetiere de Blangy
“MEDIUM”	Yarlington Mill		Frequin Rouge
	Bulmers Norman
	Dabinett
	Sweet Coppin
	Browns Apple
	Kingston Black
	Michelin
	Dabinett
	Brown Snout
	Tremletts Bitter
“SMALL”	Stoke Red
	Reine de Hatives

Cheers - David

David Pickering - "Linden Lea" 681 Huntley Road, ORANGE NSW 2800 Australia

http://www.cideroz.com/
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