keg conditioning in poly keg

[Wayne Bush]

Was wondering if anyone could share information on keg conditioning cider in a poly keg.  With the right filling kit, can the keg be filled by gravity, or does the cider supply need to be under pressure?  I assume the sugar for the conditioning is dissolved and mixed into the cider in a blending tank prior to filling the keg.  Do you need to leave the filling kit with pressure gauge attached to monitor the conditioning until the keg is ready to serve?  Is there a risk of making "keg bombs" with too much sugar, or is there a safety pressure release mechanism?  Do you use the same ratio of sugar to cider that is used for bottle conditioning?  I'd greatly appreciate any pointers!  

[Albert Johnson]

Hi Wayne - at Ross on Wye we've started conditioning in the keg (though we use keykegs, not polykegs. but same principle applies), and have been doing so successfully since last September. It's only a year's worth of experimentation (16 batches totally around 5000L off the top of my head.)

You could fill the keg by gravity but it would be slow, and I'm not sure you'd always completely fill it. We fill by attaching a coupler to our racking line and simply pumping the cider in. You weigh at the end to be sure it's full. Keykeg sell this kit: https://www.keykegshop.eu/keykeg-filling-head-incl-manometer-335/ - but the key thing here is really the tap, to ensure the cider doesn't siphon back out as you remove the coupler.

Yes, we dissolve the sugar (or do it pet nat) and ensure it's properly mixed before filling. We do not monitor the conditioning at all, but we do check each keg is ready before the first one goes on sale. We have a DIY keg dispense setup in the cider barns for this purpose.

You could add too much sugar, there is always that danger if you make a mistake. However the pressure capacity of these kegs is seriously large, much higher than you should be reaching with conditioning. So that's a fairly low risk. Keg couplers/lines also have built in pressure safety valves that will act as failsafes in the dispense system. You can reduce this risk by taking measurements for priming sugar seriously. But if you have never had a problem in a bottle, there's no reason you'd have one in a keg.

We add more sugar to our kegs than to our bottles for two reasons. Firstly, as kegs are usually served chilled, you need a higher volume of co2 to achieve the same effect of 'fizz'. Secondly, customers drinking cider out of a keg tap expect bubbles, whereas in our bottles we can get away with serving something closer to what we think is ideal - there's less "fizz chasing"! We've been experimenting with different varieties of apple with different amounts - between 9g/L and 11g/L. However to be honest, the variance you get from conditioning means I feel there is a fairly large room for error, and a bit of inconsistency between batches. I don't consider this a huge problem in terms of drinking or customer expectation, as it's part of the point of it being a live, natural product, but it can cause difficulties for publicans/whatever so it's something we're still iterating on and trying to improve.

Hope this helps!

Albert

On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 at 22:48, Wayne Bush <butter...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Was wondering if anyone could share information on keg conditioning cider in a poly keg.  With the right filling kit, can the keg be filled by gravity, or does the cider supply need to be under pressure?  I assume the sugar for the conditioning is dissolved and mixed into the cider in a blending tank prior to filling the keg.  Do you need to leave the filling kit with pressure gauge attached to monitor the conditioning until the keg is ready to serve?  Is there a risk of making "keg bombs" with too much sugar, or is there a safety pressure release mechanism?  Do you use the same ratio of sugar to cider that is used for bottle conditioning?  I'd greatly appreciate any pointers!  

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[gareth chapman]

Question for Albert.
What keg top fittings do they take and do you need any additional gas to dispense, just had a quick read up and it seems that the delivery gas is introduced between the two layers of the bag, does that mean it would also be possible to dispense a still cider.

Cheers
Gareth

[Wayne Bush]

Hi Albert--

     Thanks for your reply.  I'm a big fan of Ross on Wye cider and bought several bottles just this week to share with friends.  From what you've said, it sounds like I can give it a go.  Glad to know that 9 to 11 grams per litre of priming sugar should be both safe and generate the right amount of fizz.  Appreciate also the link to the filling head, which also had a helpful video.  Greatly appreciate your advice!  Best, Wayne

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[Albert Johnson]

Hi Gareth

Keykegs are designed specifically for their own couplers, as you say, so that the gas goes into the outer rather than the inner, though to be honest I'm not that technical on this and it may be that it is in function identical to a standard Sankey-S coupler. Presumably so, but you'd have to ask them and I doubt they'd say so!

Yes, it would be the same method to dispense a still cider... guess what happens when the cider hasn't conditioned yet! Ha! Actually the lower the carbonation of the cider, the less gas you need to push it out, as the pressure is lower. But you will always need additional gas (or you can hold the keg upside down and dispense via gravity but... just use a bag in box!)

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[Albert Johnson]

Wayne - that's lovely to hear. I hope you enjoy all our bottles! Good luck with your experiments and I hope it turns out well and that I see it on the airwaves soon!

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[gareth chapman]

Hi Albert
Thanks for the info, it seems the key kegs work differently as a normal keg uses the gas both for  propellant and carbonation.
I may well be down your way soon at Ragmans Lane Farm, scrumping some apples, so will make sure to call in. We also have a mutual friend who stays at your campsite, David and Jenny Corfield, he raves about your cider and apparently you do a pear spirit I should try.

Best wishes
Gareth