Can pectinase result in a bitter cider

[Bartek Knapek]

Hi,

  Several of my ciders from last season have developped a peculiar slightly bitter taste.
It is exactly the same in all the ciders, except that the intensity differs.

It does not make the ciders bad.
But I think it comes from the method rather than the apples, so it would be good to understand where things possibly went wrong.

I have read in the archives that "inexperienced use of pectinase can produce a bitter cider".
Can someone elaborate, please?

The reason I am considering pectinase is that I was not paying strict attention to the dosage.

           OG        FG     (F)TA[g/L] (F)pH
Rubin      1,05      0,997     4,2       3,46
Bankroft   1,0589    0,9958    5         3,52
Cortland   1,048     0,998     4,3       3,58
Jonagored  1,061     0,9994    5,6       3,68
Koksa      1,0552    0,9982    4,9       3,54
Jonagold   1,0548    0,9952    4,3       3,58
Mutsu      1,05      0,9974    4,2       3,85

Method:
 - grind the apples, add pectinase enzyme, leave overnight to macerate
 - press
 - immediately add SO2 adjusted for pH to the apple juice
 - after a couple of hours add dry yeast to the juice, without re-hydrating
 - ferment @19C, rack after 3-4 weeks
 - age for 3-4 months in a glass carboy
 - bottle with ~5g glucose per 0,5L

thanks
Bartek

[CiderSupply.com]

No but it can add insult to injury. Sounds like there may be something possibly going on with the 'grinding' process is my guess.

What are you using? If some of the pips or seeds are becoming cut, cracked, crushed, or are suffering other injury, it only takes a small percentage to taint your juice with one or more of the nasty compounds like amygdalins that seep out. One just has to nick the seeds and crack the coats. If the grinder has sharp teeth, screws, or blades that just may have occured. Then matters may have been made worse by adding powerful pectinase where by further degrading the seeds in your juice.

As the cider ages and the sugars dissapere and the acids diminish, thats where the nasty bitterness is really tasted and rears its head. If this is the case, there are fining agents that can help greatly. Winemakers often use egg whites when they have similar problem.

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[Richard Anderson]

When we first starting making cider in the late last century we used two pectinase enzymes in tandem as recommended by a nameless manufactures rep to insure a pectin free product. Our cider was brilliant, but had a distinctive bitter aftertaste. Needless to say we started talking to everyone we could to solve the problem including several who currently contribute regularly to the workshop. Looked at our equipment for potential contact with metal, split seeds etc. A winemaker I knew who had some experience with cider suggested that our use of pectinase was overly aggressive and was splitting the pectin chain in such a way to impart the bitterness. The problem went away when we ceased using pectinase. However life is not always fair and on occasion pectin hazes will occur so I use pectinase sparingly as insurance.

[Bartek Knapek]

For what I have called 'grinding' I used this piece of equipment:

I did a lot of (~30) 5L batches of different apple varieties from our Polish desert apples, to check if any would possilby surprise me with some tannins. And this small 'grinder' (blender?) was just enough, and easy to clean. Except that I had to cut the apples in quarters for it to work, which was a bit cumbersome. So I have eventually upgraded to a ClaudeJ-inspired home-made motor mill - but that was afterwards :)

No, I do not think I have affected pips/seeds - do not recall any such observation and cannot see any direct evidence on the photos.
The bitterness is not nasty. It is just there, and it is exactly the same sensation for different apple varieties, except that the intensity differs.
It is especially the late(r) apples, October+, that resulted this condition - but not all.

Yeast were different, so this cannot be the reason. Otherwise I tried to follow exactly the same procedure.

Well, it might as well be that this is a natural flavor I am complaining about.
Or it is due to some e.g. fungicide that is popular in my region..
I will keep trying :)

/Bartek

W dniu 2017-05-15 o 08:18, CiderSupply.com pisze:

[Bartek Knapek]

Thanks for the input.

Then I need to make a side-by-side test, with and without pectinase!

Now I have checked the supply orders, and I can tell that the problems
first started after I have ran out of a supermarket-grade pectinase, and
upgraded to a wine-shop-grade..
But still, not all later batches were affected.

/Bartek

W dniu 2017-05-15 o 19:57, Richard Anderson pisze:

[CiderSupply.com]

Intetesting, not all pectinase is the same. As you might expect, Pectinase comes in many different blends to address different juice or vegetable issues.

Generic pectinases can be a rich source for unwanted side activities. It can be quite difficult to attain the Special pectinases for what we do.

Another possibility is the carrier type. If a pectinase is a mild verson for tomatos or for other tasks, one may have to add too much pectinase to achieve the same results of a highly purified cider pectinase. Also the flavor of other enzyme carriers bring in bitters from too much inert material.

DDid you ever find a solution, or just quit using it?

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[CiderSupply.com]

that looks all fine to me too. Don't see anything damaging the pips. next season for sure try some batches without the pectinase for a flavor eval. Was the cider barrel aged, or wood chips added?

If so wonder if pectinase pulled bitters from that, or containers used to process?

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[CiderSupply.com]

Possibly a large number of apple stems breaking down with the pectinase during maceration? I know the wine industry goes to great measures to get all stemmage out before macetation to avoid a similar taint.

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[Bartek Knapek]

Maceration in food-grade plastic, then glass, no additions.
I will do some experiments.

/Bartek


W dniu 2017-05-15 o 21:07, CiderSupply.com pisze:

[Andrew Lea]

Yes indeed. Not all pectinases are the same. There are three main and distinct pectinase activities (PG, PME, PL) plus unwanted side activities. Remember that pectinases come from natural fungal broths. They are not synthesised pure chemicals. In addition, some pectinases deliberately contain cellulases to help liberate the pectins from the cell wall structures. Hence a lot of chemistry, both wanted and unwanted, can go on when you treat apple pulp with so-called pectinases.

I remember being at an international fruit juice meeting in Holland about 30 years ago where this problem of bitterness and off-flavours (and high colour) when using pectinase / cellulase cocktails for apple juice production was discussed. I think it was work from Switzerland but unfortunately I no longer have access to the meeting report. However I am in no doubt that some "pectinases" can be the source of unwanted bitterness in apple juice and hence cider. As far as I recall, the attributed cause was unsaturated derivatives of uronic acids.

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

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[Richard Anderson]

You might also check your application rate. I use a generic winey pectinase at a gram/gallon for insurance and have done trials and used higher rates to clear hazes.

[CiderSupply.com]

In the event that you want pectinase specifically designed for cider apples where only about 0.6g is required per gallon, let me know off list.

Best regards

Chris Rylands