Malus Sylvestris

[Mark Jenkinson]

Andrew Lea wrote;

1. Apples which are genuinely not Malus domestica eg the very rare
wild
European crab Malus sylvestris or some of the common ornamental named
cultivars of various other Asian Malus spp such as 'John Downie' or
'Golden Hornet'. (Or seedlings thereof).

My Irish plant books also confirm that Malus sylvestris is very rare
in Ireland aswell and go on to say it can be identified by its small
green fruits turning yellow/orange flushed with red but that
identification can be confirmed by the fact it carries thorns.

At the back of my house at the bottom of a small valley and stream
there is a Malus sylvestris (with thorns) that I have been using in my
cider for tannin content and tasty jelly, the fruits are both acidic
and tannic but the acidity is lost after storage.

I think this tree(s) is very ancient and it is unusual in that it is a
tight row of five or six trees growing out of a fallen single trunk
overgrown with grass and earth which can be just made out as a long
mound with roots and bits of the original trunk.

It is also unusual in that the row is standing alone in a 17 acre
field (not in the ditch) which suggests to me that it has been
cherished and protected from livestock (at least in its younger
years,even after falling) by previous generations.

I have wanted to propagate this for years but not got around to it,
how do these trees or other sylvestris propagate themselves in the
wild ?

They are obviously not grafted, so do the trees come true from seed
unlike domestic apple trees ?

Do they send out underground suckers, selfroot or only grow from
fallen wood as in my case all of which may account for their rarity.

If they don't come true from seed, is the domestic apple to blame for
their rarity -- ie. before the domestic apple came on the scene they
did come true from seed ?

Mark.

[Cornelius Traas]

Hello Mark,
That is an interesting story you tell.
I may be able to answer some of your questions.

"how do these trees or other sylvestris propagate themselves in the wild ?"

Ordinarily by seed, but as you say, there is a risk that they may hybridise
with domestic Malus, which would make them rarer.

"Do they send out underground suckers, selfroot or only grow from fallen
wood as in my case all of which may account for their rarity."

They might be able to self-root (though not likely from an older tree) and
will most likely produce suckers.

"I have wanted to propagate this for years"

You could try grafting onto a rootstock in the next few weeks, and using
that graft as a nursing stock; i.e. after the graft has taken, re-planting
the tree so that the graft union is below the soil. Then the scion should
produce its own roots, and the rootstock will rot away.

"do the trees come true from seed unlike domestic apple trees ?"

Trees from seed will always vary in phenotype (how they look) and genotype
(how they are) from their parent, as they are the product of two parents.
That is the nature of a sexual reproduction, even if pollen and ovary come
from the same tree. If you want an exact replicate, you will need to
propagate asexually (cuttings, grafting etc.). If you are happy just to have
another Malus sylvestris then you can go from seed. If you were to place an
insect-proof gauze over a branch or flower on your tree (to stop natural
pollination), and hand-pollinate with pollen from a Malus sylvestris, the
seeds in the resultant apples would all be different, but they would also
all be Malus sylvestris.

"It is also unusual in that the row is standing alone in a 17 acre field
(not in the ditch) which suggests to me that it has been cherished and
protected from livestock (at least in its younger years,even after falling)
by previous generations."

Under the Brehon laws, the fine for cutting down an apple tree was five
cows! Apple trees were highly valued in ancient Ireland.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm,
Moorstown, Cahir, Co. Tipperary.
Tel: 052 744 1459

[David Llewellyn]

Yes Mark, as Con says, if you want to propagate it, graft it low down, and
then plant it a bit deeper the next year, so the scion develops roots. I
have plenty of M9 suckers which you are welcome to dig up and use as
rootstocks, and they'd be the perfect size for grafting. Particularly if you
graft on such a dwarf stock, the stock would quickly fade away once the
scion develops its own roots

David L

[Melanie Wilson]

Note to Jez the original did not make it to my inbox

>"Do they send out underground suckers, selfroot or only grow from fallen
wood as in my case all of which may account for their rarity."
They might be able to self-root (though not likely from an older tree) and
will most likely produce suckers.

Old trees do tend to root quite easily from what I've seen particularly once
they fall. I survay a lot of old orchards and the fallen trees are rooting &
throwing up young growth quite often

>"I have wanted to propagate this for years"
You could try grafting onto a rootstock in the next few weeks, and using
that graft as a nursing stock; i.e. after the graft has taken, re-planting
the tree so that the graft union is below the soil. Then the scion should
produce its own roots, and the rootstock will rot away.

Root cuttings would be my approch, if it is on its wn roots. Air Layering is
another alternative if the tree is acessible for a while

>Under the Brehon laws, the fine for cutting down an apple tree was five
cows! Apple trees were highly valued in ancient Ireland.

Also under Anglo Saxon Law penalties were high

Mel

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[Melanie Wilson]

>it low down, and
then plant it a bit deeper the next year, so the scion develops roots. I
have plenty of M9 suckers

You can also do this just using a bit of rootstock as a nurse. To increase
the chances of it taken one can invert the scions for 3-4 weeks keeping the
bottom end moist in spagnum moss.

Apparently you get a very high sucess rate this way. (source Hugh Ermen)

[Mark Jenkinson]

Thanks for all the replies, will have to try a few of these.

Con, your explanations have cleared things up for me, was a bit
puzzeled for a minute, looks like indeed the domestic malus is maybe
at least one of the reasons Malus sylvestris is so rare.

Am a bit of a history buff so am familiar with the Brehon laws, I'm
not an Irish speaker but you may also know the wild apple was of the
highest rank, "airig fedo", noble of the wood, and more interestingly
it is mentioned in an eighth century law tract with the phrase "fiad-
ubull"(wild apple) as opposed to the modern Irish name of "crann fia-
ull"(crab apple) which it is said suggests two things, that the
domestic apple was present in Ireland in the eighth century and that
the wild apple was highly prized, maybe more than the domestic !

David,will take you up on your M9 suckers with thanks, can maybe do
that when getting the other trees if thats OK, will mail you.

Mel, thanks for the info on own roots you sent last week, that will
help here also.

Mark.