Cleansers / Sterilisers

[Ray Blockley]

Hi all,

 

Doing my annual shop at the moment to top up stocks ready for the coming season and was after some advice about cleansers / sterilisers for interior of fermentation drums, tanks, pipes, etc.

 

Currently looking at the Vigo commercial site (5% off this September for on-line orders) and considering the 2.5kg tubs of their "High pH chlorine based agent for cleaning and sterilising" but £20.75 + Delivery + VAT seems a bit high even with the 5% discount.

 

What about the "active Oxygen" or whatever it is called cleansers?

 

Any advice or links?

 

Cheers, Ray

 

 

[Andrew Lea]

The Homebrew section in my local ironmonger (yes we still have one!)
sells the Youngs Steriliser / Cleaner for �5.50 for 500g, so it's about
the same price. It's chlorine based so probably a similar formulation.

I think 'active oxygen' sterilisers will do much the same job. (Chlorine
acts as an oxidising agent in chemical terms anyway). They all need to
be formulated with some form of surfactant to act as cleaners as well as
sterilisers. Anything suitable for commercial food equipment use should
be appropriate.

Andrew

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Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
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[Ray Blockley]

Thanks, Andrew! May as well go with the Vigo stuff then.

 

Cheers, Ray

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[Nick at Ciderniks]

I'm starting to look at using beer line cleaner for some of these jobs. Anyone any experience of using it? About £6 for 5 litres and dilute 10:1

Nick

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[Rich Anderson]

You might look for a sanitizer with a peracetic acid base. I think these
sanitizers are used extensively in the food processing and brewery
industries for sanitizing equipment. If my memory is correct, use of
chlorine based sanitizers or perhaps misuse can created taint problems in
wine.

[Andrew Lea]

I think it's misuse really. If any residual chlorine remains it can
react with phenols in wines, beers and ciders to give chlorophenol
taints. So chlorine based cleaner / sterilisers do need rinsing after use.

One potential advantage of pure peracetic acid (used as a sanitiser not
a cleaner), is that it doesn't need rinsing. It acts as a surface
sterilant and can be blown away with warm air. Hence it's used to
sanitise surfaces in sterile filling operations. Also widely used in
Tetrapak filling I believe. But if it has a surface active agent
formulated with it (i.e. if it's a cleaner / steriliser) then I think it
will need rinsing like any other.

[richard marlborough]

hate to be a dunce

can i use milton baby sterilising tablets (sodium dichloroisocyanurate)

cheers

rich

[Andrew Lea]

On 06/09/2013 20:43, richard marlborough wrote:
> hate to be a dunce
>
> can i use milton baby sterilising tablets (sodium dichloroisocyanurate)

Yes but rinse with clean water afterwards. Sodium dichloroisocyanurate
is the active ingredient in most of the commercial products.

Milton is only a steriliser not a cleaner though. Won't remove crud.

[Jez Howat]

I tend to just use VWP, which is easily available to get from local home brew shops (and I do like to support them).

The brewer who I buy bottles from has recommended the oxygen cleaner as he reckons it doesn't need rinsing. I haven't come round to that idea although am mindful of something Dick has said previously about tap water only being as clean as the taps and pipes...

All the best

Jez

Sent from my iPhone

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[Martin@Briz]

Another option is a mix of sodium metabisulphite & citric acid. No need to rinse afterwards. I use it for all equipment.

 

Martin

[Andrew Lea]

Only works against organisms which are sulphite sensitive though. And it doesn't clean anything. 

If you want to use this more traditional approach, you're best using sodium carbonate first to do some cleaning and killing, then rinse with water, then use the acid metabisulphite to sterilise against most yeast and bacteria. That's what we used to do half a century ago. 

Nowadays it's much easier to use a one step commercial chlorine based cleaner sanitiser of the VWP type. Yes you do need to rinse with clean water but the quality of UK tap water is very high and is very unlikely to contain any beverage spoilage organisms. 

But there are many ways of getting there. 

Andrew

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Sep 2013, at 21:29, "Martin@Briz" <martinc...@virginmedia.com> wrote:

Another option is a mix of sodium metabisulphite & citric acid. No need to rinse afterwards. I use it for all equipment.

 

Martin

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[Fergal Connon]

Hi All,

I think this is a somewhat related question to the thread so I'll post here.

I have the opportunity to pick up some IBC tanks from an agricultural supplier. They previously contained a teat dip generically called bovidine which from what I'm told is a mix of Iodine & Glycerin.

Does anyone see any issues re-using these tanks provided they are well cleaned with a power hose? My thoughts were it would be like re-using a tank that contained iodophor..

Thanks in advance,

Fergal.

[skidbro...@tiscali.co.uk]

Hi Ray

Have you tried VWP. It is a chlorine based job but cleans really well as well as sterilising and is widely available at a reasonable price. A local cash and carry will probably have the 5Kg tubs as well. Most excellent.

Cheers

Guy

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[Cheshire Matt]

I'll 2nd VWP. Great for cleaning up even the brown stains if you leave it to soak. I totally immersed a 12L white bucket in a 25L tube to soak overnight and it comes up totally clean and you only have to rinse well - no major scrubbing needed, gets in all the crannies.

[Andrew Lea]

On 07/09/2013 08:31, Cheshire Matt wrote:
> I'll 2nd VWP. Great for cleaning up even the brown stains if you leave
> it to soak. I totally immersed a 12L white bucket in a 25L tube to soak
> overnight and it comes up totally clean and you only have to rinse well
> - no major scrubbing needed, gets in all the crannies.

Yes it's good. Much the same price as all the others and they all have
the same active ingredient for sterilising - sodium dichloroisocyanurate
- combined with a proprietary surfactant for cleaning.

This is what the manufacturers say about it:

"VWP formula includes a number of cleaning elements and the active
ingredient dichloroisocyanurate. Used at 1/2 teaspoon (2.5g) of powder
dissolved in 1/2 gallon (2.25L) water, this low concentration of
ingredients would be considerably reduced by the organic matter,
bacteria etc. of the cleaning/sterilising action. The formula is also
free rinsing i.e. Elements in the formula lift soiling from the surfaces
and hold in suspension so preventing deposition and will be rinsed away
with the remaining ingredients when rinsed with fresh water."

This is what the WHO says about the active ingredient:

"Sodium dichloroisocyanurate is the sodium salt of a chlorinated
hydroxytriazine and is used as a source of free available chlorine, in
the form of hypochlorous acid, for the disinfection of water. It is
widely used as a stable source of chlorine for the disinfection of
swimming pools and in the food industry. It is also used as a means of
disinfecting drinking-water, primarily in emergencies, when it provides
an easy-to-use source of free chlorine, and, more recently, as the form
of chlorine for household point-of-use water treatment."

[Andrew Lea]

On 07/09/2013 01:16, Fergal Connon wrote:

>
> I have the opportunity to pick up some IBC tanks from an agricultural
> supplier. They previously contained a teat dip generically called
> bovidine which from what I'm told is a mix of Iodine & Glycerin.
>
> Does anyone see any issues re-using these tanks provided they are
> well cleaned with a power hose? My thoughts were it would be like
> re-using a tank that contained iodophor..

I would think that should be OK. The iodine and glycerine and the
thickener gloop in there should all wash away. Though if the IBC's are
permanently tinted brown by the iodine I'd have second thoughts because
it means the walls have adsorbed it and it's not coming out. Iodophenols
are as unpleasant as chlorophenols in wines and ciders. And they can
both convert to the 'cork taint' halo-anisoles.

Interestingly iodophor does not seem to be widely used for sterilising
food contact materials on this side of the pond. But that's another
story ......

[Ray Blockley]

Yep, have used VWP extensively for a good few years for wine &
cider-making (it's also great for sorting the water systems and
paraphernalia for our caravan - and about a tenth of the price they
charge for it at caravan accessory shops!). Good to check what's new
on the block though :-)

Ray

[Andrew Lea]

On 07/09/2013 10:54, Ray Blockley wrote:
>
> Good to check what's new
> on the block though :-)

I don't think there is anything new really. Going back 40? years there
was Chempro SDP sold into the home brewing / winemaking trade. Anyone
remember that? It was pretty much the same stuff with the same active
ingredient AFAIR.

Remember these things are not made specially for our tiny market. They
are just repackaged versions of what's being widely used throughout the
whole food industry.

[Ray Blockley]

Yes! I was weaned on Chempro SDP... :-) Black, red and white box IIRC.

[Bob Honey]

I have no experience with this for cider, but I have used old dairy
drums for all sorts of other farm jobs and do know that iodophor
taint/smell is very difficult to remove from plastic. Personally I
would not take the risk!

Bob

[Fergal Connon]

Thanks for your feedback, I may get one anyway and test with some water first. If it fails I can always cut it in half and use for apple washing anyway, I wont be out of pocket too much either way.
P.s. Andrew I am located in Melbourne, Australia, originally from N. Ireland but joined the mass exodus of under 30's 5 years ago. I guess the Australians followed the American lead on Iodophor then?