UK only - HMRC + AWRS
Ray Blockley
Apologies if this is repetition from many months back, but.......
After chatting with Jez about this, I'm throwing this up here in case anyone else is confused - or as in my case, has a very confused specialist beer shop I supply a few times a year, now insisting that I MUST have an AWRS number to pass on to them or they will not buy anything from me & indeed will report me...
As a sub-70HL cidermaker - but fully registered & inspected by Uncle Tom Cobley & all & his sister & nephew... - according to this link and the following statement, I do not need to be registered under AWRS (if I'm interpreting this correctly!):
"Types of business that need to register
All businesses that supply alcohol to other businesses for resale need to apply. This includes:
- breweries and microbreweries
- wine producers and vineyards
- spirit producers
- cider producers who make more than 70 hectolitres of cider a year
- wine importers
- general wholesalers selling alcohol, including cash and carry businesses
- specialist wine wholesalers"
alistairphillips
Tim
Does not affect you Ray, that I can assure you of. I would have been exempt if it were not for the other stuff I buy in and sell on.
Tim in Dorset
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Raglan Cider Mill
I understand that some CAMRA festivals are going to be asking for a copy of your HMRC exemption letter if you do not have an AWRS number because you don’t need to register, maybe this is what you need to offer this shop. Like Alistair I was asked by HMRC to withdraw my application for being sub 70HL.
Sally
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Blockley
Sent: 13 February 2017 14:42
To: Cider Workshop <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Cider Workshop] UK only - HMRC + AWRS
Hi all,
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Ray Blockley
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Vince Wakefield
You are correct, I had to withdraw my application as I don’t pay duty, I can’t be registered and have a letter from HMRC saying just that,
To be honest it is another dogs dinner, on one hand they are telling retailers not to buy from anyone without a number and on the other not allowing us to register.
Vince
Rutts Lane Cider
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Blockley
Sent: 13 February 2017 14:42
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: [Cider Workshop] UK only - HMRC + AWRS
Hi all,
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Vince Wakefield
This may help, from https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excise-notice-2002-alcohol-wholesaler-registration-scheme/excise-notice-2002-alcohol-wholesaler-registration-scheme#exclusions
5.1 Circumstances where sales are outside the scope of the scheme
AWRS only applies to alcoholic liquor that has been charged with excise duty and, with the exception of the situation explained in paragraph 3.7, is sold at, or after, the duty point.
Any alcoholic liquor that has been exempted from excise duty, granted a specific duty relief or is duty free is not caught by this scheme. Examples include:
- alcohol sent from an excise warehouse to an approved denaturer for denaturing or denatured alcohol that has been exempted from - see Excise Notice 473: production, distribution and use of denatured alcohol
- alcohol sent from an excise warehouse to an approved user of duty-free spirits (DFS) for any of the approved uses in Excise Notice 47: duty free spirits - use in manufacture or for medical or scientific purposes
- alcohol supplies falling under the relief provided for in the Customs and Excise Duties Act 1979 S13A, for example to diplomats and visiting forces
- alcohol supplied as ships stores, for aircraft stores etc. unless they are supplied duty paid - see Excise Notice 69a: duty free ships’ stores and Excise Notice 198: duty free aircraft stores
- cider and perry manufactured by small producers that are exempted under the Cider and Perry (Exemption from Registration) Order 1976 - see Excise Notice 162: cider production
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Blockley
Sent: 13 February 2017 17:29
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] UK only - HMRC + AWRS
Thanks Sally & Tim, plus those who have replied directly off group.
A bit more fact finding & checking to do methinks... I think I'm OK but I don't want a fine / penalty / prosecution so I'd sooner be told to withdraw an application than get caught out...
Will report back what I find out & what happens.
Ray.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Raglan Cider Mill <in...@raglancidermill.com> wrote:
I understand that some CAMRA festivals are going to be asking for a copy of your HMRC exemption letter if you do not have an AWRS number because you don’t need to register, maybe this is what you need to offer this shop. Like Alistair I was asked by HMRC to withdraw my application for being sub 70HL.
Sally
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Ray Blockley
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Kniveton Cider Company
We went through the application/withdrawal process. During the
discussion with HMRC, I asked about the "What if a customer asked"
scenario and was told to point them towards bit on their web-site and if
they were still concerned to phone the HMRC help-line - fair enough.
But.... a quick google shows plenty of web-sites advising pubs, clubs
and retailers that EVERY wholesaler MUST have an AWRS and the penalties
they face for not checking could mean stock could be seized and they
could end up in jail.
Some people are going to take a lot of convincing
Kevin Woolley Kniveton Cider Company
Ray Blockley
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