Hewe's virginia crab graft compatibility

[Chad Frick]

Is is possible to graft Hewe's Virginia crab onto Malus domestica stock?

My recent attempts to graft Hewe's scions to Gravenstein stock (top-working young trees) leafed out well, then the scions died mid-Summer. I grafted two scions onto a large Arkansas Black tree three years ago, but these are weak, have not grown as vigorously as the rest of the tree and will probably die next year. I have grafted many, many varieties to this ancient Arkansas Black tree and notice how difficult it can be to get domestica-hybrid crabapples to take, so I have concluded Hewe's is simply not truly compatible with domestica.

The strange thing is, I have read Hewe's was widely used in colonial times as a rootstock. So could it be compatible only as a rootstock, not as a scion? 

Can anybody shed light on this Hewe's/domestica combatibility question? Share your own successful or unsuccessful Hewe's combos? I have some happily growing on MM111 and P18, but that's all. 

thanks!!!

-Chad Frick

Vulture Hill Orchard

Sebastopol, CA

[Claude Jolicoeur]

For my part, I have a few grafts of Geneva on wild seedling apple trees, and they do fine, very vigorous.
Could this problem be related to virus? Some varieties will not do well when grafted on a tree that has certain virus active.

I have seen something similar to what you describe with the Geneva redflesh crab. When grafted on a seedling stock, it did very well, but when grafted on some other tree where there were other varieties already, it leafed but died either at the end of summer or the following year. I have assumed this was due to virus, but never had confirmation of this...
Claude

[darlenehayes]

Chad,

I posted your question on the CA Rare Fruit Growers list and here's what I got back.  Most of the answer came from Tom Buford in Virginia with a couple of comments from Dave Ulmer, who is local.

Darlene 

also in Sebastopol

"I rule out the compatibly issue of the Hewes Crab to other varieties and suggest a look at the scionwood origin and bud condition, particularly that it came from the previous year’s growth. I have grafted it with success to M7, MM111, MM106, seedling stock, M9, M26 and some of the Geneva stocks. It grows successfully in the upper Midwest and in New England.  Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider is making a sizable planting.

 

Here is the description from my book Apples: A Catalog of International Varieties:

 

VIRGINIA CRAB is also known as Hewe’s Crab, Hugh’s Crab and Hughes Crab.  There is also a Red Hewes Crab, a seedling of the Virginia Crab grown by a Colonel Blackburn in Paris, Illinois before 1869.  It is redder in color and larger in size.  It was well described by Coxe in A View of Fruit Trees, 1817, as:  “The apple is of small size; the form nearly round, the stem long and thin the skin a dull red mixed with faint streaks of greenish yellow, and numerous small white spots.  The flesh is singularly fibrous and astringent: in pressing, it separates from the liquor, which runs through the finest flannel like spring water;…my own practice is to mix the crab pomace in the vat with that of strong rich cider apples, which makes an improved liquor…”  “The tree is of small size, the leaves though small, are of luxuriant growth…the wood hard and tough, never breaking with the load of fruit, usually produced every second year.  The origin of this apple is satisfactorily traced to Virginia, where trees nearly one hundred years old, are now standing…” This means that the variety was known in 1717.  Coxe continues…“The apple called Hewe’s Virginia Crab differs so much from all others that the liquor extracted from it requires a system of management adapted to the peculiar qualities of the fruit.”  Before the development of hybrid rootstocks, the Virginia Crab was often used as an under stock because of its hardiness, compatibility to many varieties and vigorous growth.  The Virginia Crab was one of the major cider varieties that Thomas Jefferson planted in the north orchard at Monticello.  It makes a very high-flavored dry cider, which maintains its quality for a long time and ferments very slowly.  In Central Virginia it ripens in September.

 

Hewes Crab and Harrison are in enormous demand now in the cider world."

I would add - latent virus in the tree that does not work as a rootstock???

[John C. Campbell III]

Tom's still around? Haven't talked to him in yeonks.  I have 3 Hewes myself heavy fruiters ...on M7 & M9 stock and one Harrison that's crowded and hasn't ever really produced well though the fruit it does put out is quite exceptional (albeit small). jccampb

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[Chad Frick]

Thanks Darlene,

So Tom Burford says compatibility should not be the issue? Can you please give me a link to the CA Rare Fruit Grower's list discussion?

If this is the case, I will try again to do more Hewe's grafts on different trees.

I feel pretty confident about the scion wood quality, which was done as a dormant graft. A latent virus in the rootstock is a possibility, and I had noticed similar behavior/failures with Transcendent and Dolgo scions, but that could be the same latent virus again.

I have five 7-year old M111 Hewe's trees which have performed like champions despite an environment rich in deer/drought/disease and am fermenting my first  4 gallon batch of cider from them right now. The juice was amazing and the fermentation has been uniquely subdued, just as the old books describe. Here, West of Sebastopol, they ripen mid-August.

I still would love to hear if anyone has a successful Hewe's growing grafted onto a domestic apple variety. 

-Chad

[darlenehayes]

Hi Chad,

It's another google group.  I'm not sure if you can see it without being a member.  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/recrfg

There wasn't much in the way of discussion.  Just my post of your question and one answer from Dave Ulmer, who had forwarded the question to Tom Buford.  Dave has a lot of grafting experience, and in fact does several grafting clinics for the group every year, so I thought he might have some relevant input.

I'm curious as to what you think of your cider once it's finished.  All my grafted trees are still too young to crop so I'm working with a combination of Gravenstein and Wickson Crab from the old orchard.  I've got 20 gals of Gravenstein bubbling away which I will blend with Wickson later.  Makes pretty good cider, although it would be nice to have some tannin.  Soon, I hope.  Meanwhile I can at least experiment the process, yeast strains, etc.

Darlene