Bottle Fillers

[Jason MacArthur]

My cider production has gotten to the point where bottling using
only gravity to move cider is no longer viable. Next year I am hoping
to produce 1500 liters of cider, and I am trying to determine what
equipment purchases make sense on a very limited budget. I am hoping
that someone with experience with some of these tools might be able to
contribute.
One of the options I am considering is the Enolmatic vacuum bottle
filler. This unit appears to be well made and universally loved, but
I do have several concerns.
Firstly, the unit does not shut off when the bottle is full, so if
the bottle sits on the unit for longer than the time it takes to fill
excess cider is pulled into a vacuum chamber. This is not a big deal
but means that if the operator gets distracted (say fumbling with a
cork) cider is wasted.
Secondly, as the cider enters the bottle it is sprayed around more
than I would like to see. The bottle is under vacuum- would this
reduce oxidation at this point, or would sparging with CO2 still be
advisable?
Thirdly, and this is my biggest concern, does the use of vacuum to
move cider pull CO2 out of solution, resulting in a totally flat
beverage? I am not looking to bottle an overtly sparkling cider, but
a little spritz is nice. If anyone has used vacuum to bottle cider I
would greatly appreciate hearing about their experiences.
The other option is a gravity filler with a holding tank into which
cider is pumped. There is a very wide range of pricing on these types
of fillers- I can probably afford one of the really cheap ones, but
for the moment the pricier models are out of my range. There must be
some reason that a 4 spout filler costing $2500 US is better than one
costing $500 US, so what is wrong with the $500 models? Some do not
include pumps, but I can arrange that. If anyone has much experience
with gravity fillers and has insight into the pitfalls and scams
associated with them I would love to hear it.

Thank you!

Jason MacArthur

[Stephen Linne]

For 400 gallon production, I would look at a 4-6 head semi automatic filler from GAI. That is what I started with. I rigged up a gas sparger as the first station, then to the filler. The fill is gravity feed but with 6 heads it keeps one person busy. It only fills to the set level and stops. It fills from the bottom up so there is very little splashing of the wine. Wine is fed to the unit via a pump and there is a float valve to shut off blow when the bowl is full (do not use a displacement pump). We were able to run at about 6 bottles a minute with this set up and a hand corker.

Steve Linne
Blacksmiths Winery

>Thank you!

>Jason MacArthur

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[Rich Anderson]

We used a four spigot GAI gravity filler with a small holding tank for years
with no problems. It could fill as fast as two of us could feed, cap and
box. These are pretty basic devices with few moving parts and can be
adjusted to fill to a set level. Since the cider was carbonated in a
pressure tank , the cider was also moved to the filler using CO2. An
alternative is a small stainless centrifugal pump. There are times when I
wished I had the equipment back.

Another route to consider is building a simple counter pressure filler; you
can find kits in many beer making shops or order the parts from a supplier
like Foxx. I have seen cidermakers gang several together with good results.
However because the gas fill is manually regulated constant attention is
required. Having looked at the Enola unit in the past , I think you would
find it to slow.

[Dick Dunn]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 04:43:16AM -0700, Jason MacArthur wrote:
[need to upgrade bottling equipment, target 1500l]
...

> One of the options I am considering is the Enolmatic vacuum bottle
> filler. This unit appears to be well made and universally loved, but
> I do have several concerns.

I will argue that it is -not- universally loved! And, while the
construction is reasonable, there are weak points. It is fussy
to adjust, and not particularly fast. But it is convenient and a
reasonable choice for smaller batches.

I've worked with the Enolmatic a handful of times, including two
80 liter batches of cider. In the case of bottling still wine to
be corked, it was better than with lightly-carbonated cider into
screw-cap bottles: Filling a bottle takes about as long as a
quick CO2 purge and corking, so two people can move it right along.
With screw caps, the closing-person is waiting on the filling-person.
Second, the carbonation is a nuisance.

Regarding your questions, but out of order:

> Thirdly, and this is my biggest concern, does the use of vacuum to
> move cider pull CO2 out of solution, resulting in a totally flat
> beverage? I am not looking to bottle an overtly sparkling cider, but
> a little spritz is nice. If anyone has used vacuum to bottle cider I
> would greatly appreciate hearing about their experiences.

No, the Enolmatic doesn't draw enough of a vacuum to pull out all the
CO2. It will reduce the carbonation a touch, but you can offset this
by just starting with a bit of extra carbonation.

The more serious problem is that the CO2 and the suction cause foaming.
You've got to fill slowly, and that reduces your efficiency. Also,
adjusting the fill-rate affects the shutoff point--the adjustments
interact. It's not a lot but it's measurable; if you're filling for sale
you've got to be accurate with the fill.

As to your other concerns:

> Firstly, the unit does not shut off when the bottle is full, so if
> the bottle sits on the unit for longer than the time it takes to fill
> excess cider is pulled into a vacuum chamber. This is not a big deal
> but means that if the operator gets distracted (say fumbling with a
> cork) cider is wasted.

Yes, you do pretty much need to be watching it during filling. It doesn't
draw cider very fast once it hits the fill point, but it's a nuisance.
The cider drawn into the chamber isn't wasted if the chamber was sanitized
at the outset. However, the chamber isn't very big, so if you draw a bit
of cider on each bottle, you have to stop and empty it from time to time,
which interrupts the work flow.

(To the obvious answer that you can just fill your mug from the overflow
container, I'll caution that there's a feedback loop: The more you
drink, the sloppier you get and more cider ends up in the overflow, so
you refill your mug more often...:-)

> Secondly, as the cider enters the bottle it is sprayed around more
> than I would like to see. The bottle is under vacuum- would this
> reduce oxidation at this point, or would sparging with CO2 still be
> advisable?

It doesn't draw enough of a vacuum to remove the oxygen, so yes it does
spray around a little. Keep the flow rate down (which you must anyway
because of the carbonation problem [above]), and you can also slightly
angle the fill tube in the bottle to get most of the flow against the
side.

We didn't feel like it was causing any oxidation problem. The fill
doesn't take so long that it's a great exposure. Also, remember the
CO2 you're pulling out of the cider? That helps since it displaces
some of the air in the bottle.
(We did a post-fill CO2 purge of the headspace, so we didn't expect
oxidation.)

Finally, though...what I'm relating is about using the Enolmatic with
two people who are friends sitting and chatting as they fill, and I'm
talking (in the case of the cider) about an 80-liter batch. You are
talking about 20 times that much. If I try to make my brain consider
bottling 1500 liters with the Enolmatic, it simply refuses to contemplate
the concept.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Jason MacArthur]

Thank you all for your input. Dick, you have saved me, at least
temporarily, from my own instinct to try and save a little money in
the short term, thereby costing me more money and a lot of aggravation
in the long run.
As to the various types of gravity fillers, I will look into the
GAIs. A friend is going to lend me a syphon style filler, so I can
experiment with that and see how the float works with a diaphragm
pump. If it fails completely I will have to use an intermediate tank
(meaning a Corny Keg) suspended from the ceiling from which I will
syphon into the syphon style filler. So much to learn!
On the topic of pumps, has anyone ever tried filtering with a
diaphragm style pump? I have read conflicting information as to the
workability of this, owing to the limited pressure these pumps can
generate. However, the pump I am looking at claims a Max. outlet
pressure of 100 p.s.i., which would seem more than adequate for
filtration purposes. I don't know the flow rate at this pressure, but
I wouldn't need much. If anyone has experimented with this
combination I would love to hear about it.
Thanks again!
Jason

[Rich]

I have a GAI FIller gravity 12 head rotary used for wine production.

I am wondering if I hold the tank at 1 degree and sparge from the bottom valve while bottling keeping it cold if this, would be enough to get away with giving my cider a small amount of carbonation?

Any experience this would be great to hear. Trying to avoid an expensive counter pressure filler situation.

Cheers

[Rich Anderson]

We used a gravity filler but chilled and carbonated the cider prior to bottling so we had some idea of g/l. It worked ok.  You might think about inline carbonation. While you can buy an inline carbonator, you can build one with a brewers stone and stainless pipe fittings. The one issue I would envision would be control since carbonation is a function of temperature and pressure.   

 

[Carla David]

Hi!  Do any of you owners of the GAI gravity bottle fillers know what to do when the fillers won't fill?  Also, do you have a method to get them going that does not require you to use your mouth to start the siphon? (Seems unsanitary, I usually spray it with alcohol after I get it started) Thank you for any advice!!

Cheers,

Carla

On Friday, October 10, 2014 at 4:11:33 PM UTC-7, Richard wrote:

[Dhruv Jain]

Hi Carla,

I'm not familiar with the GAI gravity bottle filler. However, I solved my using one's mouth to start the siphon without resorting to buying flimsy auto-siphons by simply constructing one of these:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=25774

So this siphon basically has 3 ends and needs only a T joint and some hose (the clamps can be avoided) to construct; as a result, the end that you put in your mouth does not come into contact with the liquid. Its a little tricky to get used to in the beginning but once you get the hang of it, its quite a simple/elegant solution.

Regards,

dhruv.

[Headelf]

Carla,

Re: GAI Gravity fillers

1. Your wine level needs to be above the tank for Gravity feed or you can use a pump to fill the tank and build a float switch to turn on and off or do it manually.

2. If you have a shop vac use it to start your siphons. Use any size tube bigger than the SS filler tubes and use it only for that purpose. You will have to mcGyver the connection to a vacumn tool. 

Slainte Mhath

Tom Frey

Adirondack Cider

Plattsburgh, NY

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[Carla David]

Tom,

I do use a pump to fill the basin of the filler, that is not a problem. The problem I am speaking of is when the filer tubes themselves do not work even after you start the siphon. It seems that only 3 out of the 6 fillers actually work now. 

Carla

Carla David
Wild Wines
www.enjoywildwines.com
(541)899-1565

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[Headelf]

Carla,

Check the rubber o-rings at the end of the filler tubes. They might be nicked and not holding the seal. Also you can take the fillers off - right where the tubes rotate. Both for cleaning and examination. 

The o-rings are generally easy to match at a hardware store. 

Slainte Mhath

Tom Frey

518-593-7904

[Jason MacArthur]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 10:53:09 AM UTC-4, Carla David wrote:

Tom,

I do use a pump to fill the basin of the filler, that is not a problem. The problem I am speaking of is when the filer tubes themselves do not work even after you start the siphon. It seems that only 3 out of the 6 fillers actually work now. 

You might need to tighten the bolts which attach the rotating filler head to the body of the filler.  If these are too loose air will get sucked in at this point and your syphon will be lost. We like ours tight enough that the filler head doesn't swing down and rest against the filler body between bottles, but not so tight that it is difficult to get a bottle into place.   O-rings are also worth checking.  The beauty of these fillers is that there is so little to go wrong!

Jason

[Carla David]

THank you, Jason and Tom,

I bought O-rings today, and if that is not the problem I will tighten and check everything else out!

Cheers,

Carla

Carla David
Wild Wines
www.enjoywildwines.com
(541)899-1565