Hydrogen Sulphide smell - options

[Dibbs]

A month or so back I made 3*25l batches of cider from apples donated by friends and neighbours.  To one of these batches I added a couple of pounds of blackberries.  The idea was to over-sweeten the resulting pink "cider" it and call it "Scrumpy Jill"  to give to friends who aren't keen on real cider.

 

This particular batch has just about finished fermenting but has a strong hydrogen sulphide smell.  I believe this can happen with low nitrogen fruit (which I may well have) and a wild yeast fermentation and I'm aware of splash racking and copper treatment to remedy it.  I may have another option however.  Recently I got 2/3 ton of commercially grown dessert apples (thanks Guy).  I assume that these will not be short of nitrogen so I wondered if I could blend the smelly stuff with some juice from the new apples in the hope that renewed nitrogen rich fermentation will drive off the hydrogen sulphide.  On the other hand I worry that there's something I don't know about blackberries which has caused this issue and I'll just make more smelly stuff.

 

Does anyone know if blackberries could cause hydrogen sulphide to be eveolved during fermentation?

[MARTIN PAGETT]

hi dibbs i would put my blackberries in a pie along with some apples of course and keep the cider tasting of cider and not have any friends but be happy all the same

From: Dibbs <i...@bjss.co.uk>
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 19 November 2012, 16:26
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Hydrogen Sulphide smell - options

A month or so back I made 3*25l batches of cider from apples donated by friends and neighbours.  To one of these batches I added a couple of pounds of blackberries.  The idea was to over-sweeten the resulting pink "cider" it and call it "Scrumpy Jill"  to give to friends who aren't keen on real cider.

 

This particular batch has just about finished fermenting but has a strong hydrogen sulphide smell.  I believe this can happen with low nitrogen fruit (which I may well have) and a wild yeast fermentation and I'm aware of splash racking and copper treatment to remedy it.  I may have another option however.  Recently I got 2/3 ton of commercially grown dessert apples (thanks Guy).  I assume that these will not be short of nitrogen so I wondered if I could blend the smelly stuff with some juice from the new apples in the hope that renewed nitrogen rich fermentation will drive off the hydrogen sulphide.  On the other hand I worry that there's something I don't know about blackberries which has caused this issue and I'll just make more smelly stuff.

 

Does anyone know if blackberries could cause hydrogen sulphide to be eveolved during fermentation?

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[Dibbs]

Hmm.  I thought I might get that sort of reply round here.

[Cheshire Matt]

Are fruit ciders/made wines actually made by sticking the fruit in at the
same time tho? Maybe you've made an error and need to learn from
experience? All examples I know of - jerkyn, sloe-infused etc, the fruit
is added once you have cider. Aren't fruit wines made by straining the
fruit out before fermenting?

Chuck it and try again next year or add vimto to whatever else you've
managed to make. Alternatively, why not try and educate your friends?

------- Original message -------
> From: Dibbs <i...@bjss.co.uk>
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Dibbs]

You're probably right Matt.  Failed experiment.  I'll forget about trying to save it.

[Onslow's dry]

Have you considered treating a small sample with activated charcoal to see if there is any improvement?

[Gabe Cook]

Hi Dibbs

 

A good friend of mine (and successful entrant at Putley) has many times made ciders with raspberries or blackberries for fun, experimentation and as a great way to appeal to a drinker who may not have considered craft cider before.  But actually it was mostly for personal consumption!  I seem to remember the fruit was added whole, at the start of fermentation. 

 

They invariably turned out to be very tasty; no doubt as he's a good cider maker.  I don't think the addition of fruit created a natural sweetness as it would have fermented out.  I think he used a belnd of dessert and bittersweet apples, so the tannin wasn't too overpowering for the delicate flavours of the fruit.

 

So I would say, 'Nil Desperandum!', and don't give up on it yet.  If it hasn't been racked yet, then do that first.  You'll be amazed at what a difference being off the lees can sometimes do to a 'funky' cider.  If still no luck then you could look at things like charcoal or copper; but I'd either keep it for cooking or turn it into a vinegar to see what happens.

 

Cider making is all about experimentation and learning as you go along.  Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

Cheers

 

Gabe

[Richard Reeves]

Dibbs:

As I just finished a grape wine co-fermented with blackberries a few weeks ago,  I'll chime in:  That wine had no H2S or other stink issues, the caveats being 1: I always add a blended nutrient to all of my ferments which includes DAP  at ~110-120 PPM, and 2.  At such low DAP additions my ferments frequently have SLIGHT H2S towards the end of the ferment that is without exception (so far at least) dissipated by a vigorous splash racking just post-primary,  my blackberry ferment may have had it as well, I don't keep track of that but it's clean now.  I did notice that the ferment of the batch with added blackberries started much, much faster than the other half of the same grape juice that had no added blackberries, I don't know what to attribute that to.

Haven't tried blackberries with the apple juice yet but can't imagine that the result would much different.

H2S formation is frequently caused by 1. Too much elemental sulphur (fungicide) on fruit,  2. Not enough oxygen in the must (low redox potential) especially coupled with high temperature fermentations,  3. Stressed (nutrient-deprived) yeast or "incorrect" yeast (known high H2S producers). One can imagine the bulk of wild yeasts fitting that description, though I have no basis whatsoever to back up that assertion, it's just a hunch.

Cheers, Richard