Would buying a belt press from China not be very sensible?

[Alex]

I’m slightly ashamed about what having just spent two hours eagerly perusing fruit processing machinery on Alibaba might say about me as an individual. Some fantastically priced folding steel 1,000l bag-in-boxes were what drew me in! http://bit.ly/1MaQ0Q0

I need something bigger than my Speidel hydro press, but a Goodnature batch press is a bit too steeply priced for me. All the screw cage presses sold on there look rubbish (and I hear their yield is very low and that they produce cloudy juice), but was wondering about this: http://bit.ly/1MaQwgP

Has anybody had any experience with one of these (the one in the main picture)? It seems to be widely sold by a number of different manufacturers in China. Does it look like junk? And are there better options (from anywhere in Europe) for a comparative price to that ($5,000)? 

Thanks

Alex

[Handmade Cider]

At a glance, the description says all the right things but it looks less sturdy than the ones available in the U.K.

My main issue would be product support. Do you know an engineer who has knowledge of PLC control systems to maintain it for you?

What availability of spares should it break down on November 20th...

Denis

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

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[Remo Trovato]

Have you ever bought anything from china? We did (bib bags) and will never do again. It was an expensive lesson.
We use a Kreuzmayr belt press, which are top of the line at a resonable price. Even their smallest KEB400 can do up to 2-3 bins/hour. We had a 400 and upgraded to a 500.
Where are you located Alex?

[Ben Weller]

Hello,

I have plugged on here before so sorry for the repetition.

We build belt presses at competitive prices and would recommend a visit if you have the time.

I'm also happy to forward more information so please email in...@twistedcider.co.uk.

Kind regards

Ben Weller
www.twistedcider.co.uk

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[Alex]

Thanks Denis,

Yes pondering those exact things is why I won't take a punt. I was curious to know if anybody had tried one.

best regards

Alex

[Alex]

Much appreciated  Remo,

No I haven't bought anything from China, what was wrong with the bags you bought? Those were the things I was genuinely contemplating from China and possibly fermentation tanks, (but probably not). And where do you get them from now instead? 

I'm in the Southeast of France.

[Remo Trovato]

We were promised Original Vitop Spouts for our BiB. When they arrived, they were of course a cheap knockoff and since that is a crucial part of the sealing process, we could not take the chance and use them. 10'000 bags gone...

We usually buy from Smurfit Kappa here in Canada and were always super happy with the quality, especially since they have an extra layer (over other brands). 
Due to a supply restriction, we had to get bags ASAP and China was the only one who would deliver in time. 

We use a Kreuzmayr belt press (KEB500) as well as a destoner (KEP650) from them and although nominal capacity states 1000kg for the press and 650kg for the destoner, we can usually press 1400kg and destoner 1000kg. Never broke down and spare parts are usually delivered within days if needed. 

[Rich Everett]

2 points:
After 3 different presses over 7 years we purchased a Kreuzmayr and it worth every penny. We are a small operation in Calif. it saves us on labor, time, and quality. It just plain works!
We purchased four stainless tanks via distributors here in the U.S. MADE IN China. Then we found a Calif. hand made tanks for about the same pricing and they are superior in quality then any of the China tanks, plus great support and easy to deal with
If anyone wants details on the different presses email me directly. I researched for two years before purchasing the Kreuzmayr. EverettF...@comcast.net.


Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Remo Trovato <remo.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Kreuzmayr

[Remo Trovato]

BCTF bought a Kreuzmayr and they made over 1 million liters with no issues. The only thing I did for them was tightened the elevator belt on the grinder. They recently just bought a second one.

[Rod Calder-Potts]

I have a Kreuzmayr KEB 750 press.

It is a very well designed and well made machine.

The thing to be aware of is that they claim a yield of 75% and a throughput of 3000 kg/hour. These can not both be achieved at the same time.

To achieve a yield of 75% the throughput will not be more than about 1300 kg/hour (depending on the apple variety etc.).

So if you are choosing which one to get divide their throughput figure by 3 or accept a yield in the region of 550-650kg / tonne

Rod Calder-Potts

Cuffesgrange,

Co. Kilkenny.

R 95 N1 KC

IRELAND

00 353 (0) 56 7729918
www.highbankorchards.com

r...@highbank.ie

On 7 Apr 2016, at 15:56, Remo Trovato <remo.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

BCTF bought a Kreuzmayr and they made over 1 million liters with no issues. The only thing I did for them was tightened the elevator belt on the grinder. They recently just bought a second one. 

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[Remo Trovato]

I disagree. My 500 has a nominal capacity of 1000kg/h and i put through 1400kg (with good apples) and my yield is always 75%.
With poor quality or old apples (especially a Mac or Spartan) that has been stored for month, yes, my capacity drops to about half and the yield goes down to about 65-70%. But this is the case with any press. Can't squeeze juice out of apple sauce...

[didiert...@gmail.com]

Thanks for that Remo, I have now heard so many negative accounts of buying equipment from China, that I think I have resolved not to do so. Thanks for sharing.

[Wes Cherry]

There are some good Chinese equipment vendors.   Check the probrewer.com discussion board  for reports of good experiences as well as absolute horror stories.

-Wes

Sent from my iPad

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[CiderSupply.com]

Before doing the cider-stuff, for 10 years i worked for a direct importer of offshore machinery and general hand tools for the second largest tool manufacturer in the US. As technical support for $150 to $53,000 Chinese and Taiwanese lathes, mills, presses exc. Pretty much the deal was and still is this:

Don't ever purchase any single machines on your own through a factory direct importer, web importer, or a broker.

You must absolutely go through a well established machine dealer/importer instead.

They have a vigilant quality control system with the Chinese factories and the clout to pressure the factories to keep quality standards up. China has more and more ISO-9000 plants every month, but still go through a reputable tool dealer esecially for recourse for any problems.

When you have a choice, buy Western-Made first, then Taiwan, India, and lastly China.

As with many start up businesses where key machinery is mandatory to operate in some compeditive fashion, the low price Asian machinery allows one to enter the market at a fraction of the price. Thus more often than not, a profit is attained sooner. Shortly thereafter the Asian machinery often is sold off and replaced with the really fine Western-Made machines that will last for the long run with far less buyers remorse at that time.

Many small business people say if my business attempt fails, i would rather it fails with a bunch of low price machines that are rather easy to get rid of instead of very expensive machines that have a small buyers market.

These are just general small business patterns i have noticed doing sevral thousand technical calls with customers in the startup and established fields of woodworking and Metalworking. Cider is no different.

There currently is a huge push for very economical cidermaking presses, grinders, bottlers, exc to start coming into North America from Asia. Normally things like Western-Made corkers, bottlers, bottle washers that were $15,000 are being copied and in the near future should be readily available for $3,000 in the US, and possibly in Europe.

With a little ingenuity the Asian machines can be tweaked and upgraded with Western components here and there to really make the Asian machinery reliable and productive. This is especially true for seasonal tasks so common with cidermaking.

Not saying that this is all a good thing, just stating the direction of most consumers as I have seen and forsee.

After all, the general public typically seems to be quite happy with low end mass produced cider, and not the good stuff all of us produce :-)

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[Alex]

Wow that's a great overview of the considerations when buying from China Chris, thanks very much for taking the time to write that

[CiderSupply.com]

No Sweat, if you end up going with a certain type from a source, i know myself and likely the others on this thread would like to hear your review.

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[Alex]

Thanks Chris, I won't go with the press. It's just too much of a risk. I am very seriously considering (it's a 50-50 decision right now) a couple of fermentation tanks though from a plant that has, as you mentioned, a ISO-9000 ISO.

I wouldn't for various reasons be able to go through a dealership so would be buying directly.

Should I go ahead with this purchase I will happily write a review of that though.

I'd be happy to share my quotation from them too if you're interested.

Best regards

Alex

[CiderSupply.com]

Thanks Alex, and im all ears.