Sulfite addition to cider

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Hello,

I have a question. I've just pressed different varieties of apple, all of them having a TA of 2-6 g/L. I did pH wine strip test to calculate the amount of SO2 to add to correctly protect the must against spoiliage. The test seemed to give me a pH of 3.6 to 4 (pH strips are hard to read and not very accurate), so i've sullfited my must with 100 to 150 ppm of sulfite.

The next day, the carboy still have a very strong sulfite smell and 24 hours folloing yeast pitch (white labs English cider), there is still no fermentation activity.

Have I oversulfited my must? Is it normal? How much time does it take for the sulfiite smell to go away? I currently have no sulfite test kits, but if i buy one, how much free and total SO2 should a must have?

I fear that my yeast might not be able to ferment my must and/or that a strong or undesired sulfite smell could remain in my cider.

Thank you very much!

Louis

[Andrew Lea]

Quit worrying and just give it time. You have only been waiting a day!!  Why so impatient? Things should kick off within a week or so. 

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

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[Nathan Shackelford]

If you are coming from a beer brewing background you may need to adjust your perceptions and expectations for fermentation. I know I did. Slow is better for cider, and the lower pH of cider gives it more protection from spoilage... so sitting around "doing nothing" isn't as dangerous or alarming.

The sulphur smell should dissipate during fermentation. Having pH strips that give you a little bit more info (like measurements between 3.6 and 4.0) might help you get your S02 dosage dialed in. My understanding is that 100-150ppm is pretty standard, however.

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Thanks for answering.

I actually bought pH strip test for wine with a range of 2,8-4,4 but it's accuracy is only of .4 scale (2.8, 3,2, 3,6, 4,0 and 4,4), which makes estimation of sulfite addition pretty difficult... That sulfite smell is quite annoying has I fear it might stays in the finished  cider (sulfite shouldn't bound to must component, leaving a free SO2 around 20-30 ppm, which is diffiult to detect by nose or taste?).

I read that wort aeration was an efficient way to bound sulfite present in must, permitting the correction of oversulfited must. Should I try that or wait a but?

Thanks for your reply.

Louis

[Andrew Lea]

During fermentation, carbonyls like acetaldehyde are produced which bind SO2 totally. There will be no free SO2 left at the end of fermentation with the levels you have added. 

Andrew 

Sent from my iPhone

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

All right, thank you!

I also have a question : what is the best affortable way to test free and/or total sulfite in a must/cider? 

I've seen that wine shops sell sulfite titrets and I also have heard of the Ripper test (I'm not quite sur to understand how it works).

[Andrew Lea]

On 19/10/2015 23:48, luis.ga...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I've seen that wine shops sell sulfite titrets and I also have heard of
> the Ripper test (I'm not quite sur to understand how it works).

The Ripper titration is a standard iodimetric titration for sulphite.
Any good wine analysis textbook will give you the details. You can
either use straight iodine solution as the titrant (which needs
restandardising and calibrating frequently) or an iodate / iodide
mixture which is stable. Starch is used as an indicator to a blue endpoint.

The basic Ripper method measures only free SO2. But it can be adapted
for total SO2 by using a temporary shot of strong alkali to liberate the
bound SO2 and titrating quickly before it recombines.

http://www.enartisvinquiry.com/download/protocols/SO2%20Free%20by%20Ripper.pdf

http://www.enartisvinquiry.com/download/protocols/SO2%20Total%20by%20Ripper.pdf

Titrets are a commercial single use 'kit' implementation of the basic
Ripper method. They are only available in North America AFAIK and only
measure free SO2. Costly but convenient.

Andrew

--
near Oxford, UK

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

The ripper method looks quite complicated, and seems to requiregood basis of chemistry. Also, these items looks like hard to find to your local pharmacy. Is it possible to buy a whole kit including all these items? 

If not, is there other cheap/easy tests for the determination of the free SO2 of a cider?

What is the point of determining the total SO2 of cider? Isn't just the free SO2 that affect taste and cider protection against spoiliage organism?

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le lundi 26 octobre 2015 22:33:23 UTC-4, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

The ripper method looks quite complicated, and seems to requiregood basis of chemistry. Also, these items looks like hard to find to your local pharmacy. Is it possible to buy a whole kit including all these items? 

If not, is there other cheap/easy tests for the determination of the free SO2 of a cider?

I use the Vinmetrica. It isn't exactly cheap for a hobbyist, but is relatively simple to use and accurate enough
https://vinmetrica.com/product/vinmetricas-sc-100-sulfite-analyzer/

 

What is the point of determining the total SO2 of cider? Isn't just the free SO2 that affect taste and cider protection against spoiliage organism?

For a commercial producer, it is important that total SO2 is below the legal limit (which may change with the country you are in).

Claude

[Dick Dunn]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 08:27:14PM -0700, Claude Jolicoeur wrote:
> Le lundi 26 octobre 2015 22:33:23 UTC-4, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

...

> > What is the point of determining the total SO2 of cider? Isn't just the
> > free SO2 that affect taste and cider protection against spoiliage organism?
>
> For a commercial producer, it is important that total SO2 is below the
> legal limit (which may change with the country you are in).

Claude is right there.
As to protection, it is actually the -molecular- SO2 that matters.
The relation between free and molecular is a matter of pH (which is why the
required addition of metabisulfite works from a table where the entries
depend on pH).

As Andrew said earlier, Ripper will measure free SO2 which is what you want
to know for protection matters. And it can be adapted as Andrew said to
measure total SO2 which is what you want to know for legal matters.

This is covered very well in the page on Sulphur dioxide on Andrew's web
site. The basics are:
Total SO2 is how much you add.
Free SO2 is total SO2 minus what gets bound up.
Molecular SO2 is a fraction of free SO2 which depends on pH.

The not-easily-determined aspect is how much of the sulfite gets bound up,
because that depends on the properties of the juice. See Andrew's site on
this as well.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

I admit that it whould probably be the best idea to buy an electronic sulfite tester, but I find it quite expensive for my needs. It is my second year has a cider maker and even if I cidriified a consiiderable amout of apple juice (10-12 carboys), I'm not sure I want to invest that amount of money yet.

I've seen a couple of option that seem more reasonable, like the Quantofix sulfite strips 

http://www.amazon.ca/SEOH-Indicator-Sulfite-Quantofix-Analytical/dp/B0089PPEGI/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1445979974&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=sulfite

or the Chemetrics titrets kit

https://www.chemetrics.com/Sulfite+%28free%29/Visual+Kits/K-9610W

The first option is clearly the cheaper, even if I don't know it's accuracy for the wine purpose (It doesn't specify that it can be use for wine). Accuvin also make such strips but at a higher price.

For the second option, I guess it's a good one since it use the Ripper method, but it isn't detailed for less than 25$ + shipping in Canada.

Finay, some kits made by Hanno or Hach seems to be cheap for the number of sample that they can read, but i'm wondering if they can be used for wine has they seems to be promoted for water tests only.

http://www.hannainst.com/Usa/prods2.cfm?id=001001&ProdCode=HI%203822

http://www.hach.com/sulfite-test-kit-model-su-5/product?id=7640219542

Thnk you very much!

Louis