Belt Press vs Rack and Cloth Press

[Rich Everett]

We are deciding on what to purchase for a new apple press for next season, either one of the european belt presses or the rack and cloth hydraulic press (made in the U.S.), both of similar size.  We know very little about the belt presses as here in the U.S. most are  still using the rack/cloth presses.  Both units would be brand new, similar size, and can press about the same quantities.    How reliable is the belt press, the rack press is simple, easy to fix if it breaks, parts readily available locally.  The belt press seems pretty efficient but complicated.  What the heck do you clean or replace the belt, can it run for 6-8 hours,  how easy to fix problems, parts, run etc.

We'd really appreciate any advice on the different belt manufactures and models.  We are a small cider mill, requiring the pressing of 1 ton an hour (2000lbs) or about 150-200 gallons of juice an hour.  We are looking into Voran, Core, Niko, and Gebhardt.

We will also be purchasing a bin dumper, apple washer, elevator, grinder, press, pump (to storage) so looking for all this from one manufacture so it all fits...

Rich Everett

Everett Family Farm

"Fine Organics From Seed to Core"

reof...@gmail.com

[nfcider]

Rich,
Have you considered the Goodnature Squeezebox System alternative,(they are literally a pair of pack presses horizontally opposed )this system is virtually a one man operation when utilizing the pomace pump system,I know you have the additional washing of bags etc(we keep an additional set and rotate),but having made cider commercially for the past 27years initially pack pressing ourselves,sometime contract belt pressing and now your US Goodnature press system for quite a few years,I am adamant that in taking into account waste in your primary fermentation tank lees,the initial juice is far cleaner from having that initial filtering from the bag ,the belts always deliver the added element of "fross" suspended in the juice .
Barryp

[nfcider]

Sorry,got called away to weigh in some apples,I know in our 1500 litre tanks in the primary fermentation,pack pressing we average a 1.5 inch depth of settled out lees/sediment when racking out,belt pressing it was consistently 5/6 inches deep,taking this waste factor into account it considerably reduces your initial juice extraction yield also I'm adamant that there is always a "wet"feel to the pressed pomace leaving the belt compared to pack pressing's dryness,consider another factor in the UK,belt pressing is old hat with the Big Boys,they have all switched to the Bucher HP systems which is effectively another form of pack pressing.
Barry

[Rich Everett]

Thank you for the advice, we own a small Goodnature X-1 and we have used it for very small jobs over the last five years.  We are not thrilled with the machine, some poor designs and the bag is truly a hassle as it plugs up and we switch out  like you do.  I also see on the   youtube video's of the squeezebox that the operator is always using a "stick" to arrange the mash in each chamber which seems again to be extra work.  Plus then we'd need some sort of system for exiting of the mash onto our floor and out to the tractors?  I will look into it again thanks to your suggestion.  We went from the X-1 to a old rack/cloth press and it just works so much better (although we need 3 people to operate it).

I've gotten to responses that mention some challenges with belt presses that we were not aware of, I'd appreciate any more input on a mid size press,  with the ability to press about 1-2 tons per hour for our little operation.

Does anyone own a model distributed by Core (UK) and it's a Kreuzmayr 500?   Or does anyone own the Oseco 32" rack press who can give us advice?

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop"  Google Group.
By joining and posting to the Cider Workshop, you have agreed to abide by our rules, and principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html

To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[nfcider]

Rich,
There is a big difference between the X1 and the SX200 that we have,the 2 chambers each have 6 double bags to a side and they hydraulically invert in one operation to empty,the stick/paddle is only used to loosen the dry pressed cake in the bag prior to inverting,not during the filling.we have the Goodnature mill which is great ,it has 3 screens that can be quickly changed depending on the type of fruit being milled,but we opted for a Mono pump for moving the pomace,it's a bit dearer but it's more than paid for itself,alleviating the problems of dry worn out stators from the pulp not being wet enough,the epilictically driven auger feeding the pump means you never get any lodging of pulp leading to adding juice back in to get it moving( like some I could mention!),minor downside is with a Mono there is no "give",it just keeps pumping,so with dry pulp it leads to friction and initially with lightweight wire reinforced pipes we had a couple explode leaving us covered in pulp!,with the heavier corrugated ribbed pipes it's fine and the operator just zig zags the pipe in each bag to fill it,at the moment the spent pomace is tipped on the floor and we manually shovel to a grain bucket on a loader to a trailer,but long term we are looking for a Tong type potato elevator with a hopper to remove direct to the trailer.
Having relatives in Lancaster county,Pennsylvania ,last time over there we visited Kaufmans near Bird in Hand,they had 2 SX200's in tandem with a moving belt that the spent Pomace was tipped on,they were very helpful if you wanted to see them working if you were in that area of the US.
Barry

[Rich Everett]

Very useful and I will look into that manufacture. I have dealt with good nature and they have not been very supportive after I purchased the $12k press! We purchased the rack press that gives us 60-100 gallons per hour. Now we need something that can give us about 120-150 gallons per hour. Still small stuff. Going with all new this time. So now we have to decide traditional hydrolic rack and cloth, belt, or bags (good nature) but we have. Couple months to research

Sent from my iPhone

[damian mcardle]

Good post Rich, I am in Australia and want to upgrade too. Good nature presses look fantastic but it's 70k USD for the sx200 with feed system. I've had a quote of similar money for a krayzmer unit and I'm not sure which way to go. I personally think they both have advantages and disadvantages. Has anyone else got good advice on any type of press for rich and i?

[Headelf]

Damian, rich and others
Elfs started with a complete 28 inch Used Oesco press bought used. It was complete with washer, conveyor, grinder, racks, hose etc
We had never made cider before and were clueless. It tools months to rehab this mostly steel and oak hydraulic line. It worked beautifully and made nice cider with very dry pomace. It took three people to work, extracted 65 - 70 gallons per apple bin and the best we ever did was 5 bins (including clean up) in a ten hour day.

Elfs burned in 2011, July. In sept I learned of a Goodnature press for sale in Colorado for around 12k. I previously had visited the Goodnature factory in Buffalo . The new 200sx were around 30k. The mill in Colorado had two 200 sx and were upgrading. They sold the other machine two days before I drove the 4000 miles to get it.

We have just only this week run our second batch on the 200. Most of the work was manual since we are just getting to rebuilding the cider line.

Four of us manually sorted the apples in buckets and fed the squeezebox. We did four bins. The pomace is wetter than the hydraulic. We pressed about 55 gallons per bin ( but they had been sweating outside for several weeks) . It took us 4-5 hours to press and another hour+ for setup and cleaning.
When I get the bin flipper working and conveyors, etc I believe I will be able to press 10 bins with two people in an 8 hour day. Perhaps producing less juice per bin unless we decide to use rice hulls etc
The hydraulic system had several motors, this has one small 120v. We went to an Italian blade cutter chute for the apples. It is much quieter and uses less energy. The cleanup on the sx uses probably 50 - 100 gallons less water.
Those are some of my observations. Btw if anyone is interested in a project I have a slightly toasted 28 inch Oesco press for sale in Plattsburgh, NY. A bin is around 900 pounds of apples -40 bushels I believe.
Tom

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:42 AM, damian mcardle <damianb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good post Rich, I am in Australia and want to upgrade too. Good nature presses look fantastic but it's 70k USD for the sx200 with feed system. I've had a quote of similar money for a krayzmer unit and I'm not sure which way to go. I personally think they both have advantages and disadvantages. Has anyone else got good advice on any type of press for rich and i?
>

[Rich Everett]

Looks like we are gaining some momentum for input on this posting and the more we get the better.  We'd appreciate hearing from owners of belt, rack and cloth, and the good nature horizontal press.

A couple of facts that may help:

*Our operation requires an apple press that can handle about 1-2 tons per hour or with an output of 100-150 gallons of juice per hour

*We are investigating the differences between the belt presses and the rack/cloth hydraulic presses made through out the world since all can be shipped nearly anywhere in the world

*We are open to all manufactures but my research has narrowed it down to a rack and cloth built by Oesco (either 28-32-36 inch size built in the US) and the Kreuzmayr (Model 500 distributed by Core in the UK) and finally some Voran units (available to us in the US from Canada)

I can add to the information already posted by mentioning:

-On our current rack/cloth press which is 22" we can press a bin (approx. 850lbs) of apples in 45 minutes and get about 60-65 gallons of juice

-It is important to mention that we use 5 people to run this press (two more if we bottle the juice as opposed to pump it into our tanks for hard cider)

-It takes so many people because two people manually pick the apples out of the bin and run them through our washing operation.  It takes two people to handle the racks/clothes, and a third at the  end to dispose of the mash and do other various jobs.

-We plan on purchasing a bin dumper along with a washing system that matches the press which will eliminate basically two people.  The belt press eliminates another person but a new rack press would not.

It seems hard to find people using the belt presses in the US, more popular in Europe?

On Oct 24, 2013, at 12:33 PM, nfcider <barr...@newforestcider.co.uk> wrote:

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop"  Google Group.
By joining and posting to the Cider Workshop, you have agreed to abide by our rules, and principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html

To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Rich Everett]

Looks like we are gaining some momentum for input on this posting and the more we get the better.  We'd appreciate hearing from owners of belt, rack and cloth, and the good nature horizontal press.

A couple of facts that may help:

*Our operation requires an apple press that can handle about 1-2 tons per hour or with an output of 100-150 gallons of juice per hour

*We are investigating the differences between the belt presses and the rack/cloth hydraulic presses made through out the world since all can be shipped nearly anywhere in the world

*We are open to all manufactures but my research has narrowed it down to a rack and cloth built by Oesco (either 28-32-36 inch size built in the US) and the Kreuzmayr (Model 500 distributed by Core in the UK) and finally some Voran units (available to us in the US from Canada)

I can add to the information already posted by mentioning:

-On our current rack/cloth press which is 22" we can press a bin (approx. 850lbs) of apples in 45 minutes and get about 60-65 gallons of juice

-It is important to mention that we use 5 people to run this press (two more if we bottle the juice as opposed to pump it into our tanks for hard cider)

-It takes so many people because two people manually pick the apples out of the bin and run them through our washing operation.  It takes two people to handle the racks/clothes, and a third at the  end to dispose of the mash and do other various jobs.

-We plan on purchasing a bin dumper along with a washing system that matches the press which will eliminate basically two people.  The belt press eliminates another person but a new rack press would not.

It seems hard to find people using the belt presses in the US, more popular in Europe?

[Mike Beck]

Rich we use a J-300 belt press made by Frontier Technologies Inc. in Allegan, Michigan.  We had used a 36” rack & cloth press for over 25 years.  We have had our Belt press since 1989. It does not require the use of rice hulls for production. It can run as slow as 150 gallons per hour up to 425 gallons per hour.  The press has a Blade Mill on the unit so a sani-feed system is not required.  The best part is the footprint is smaller than a piece of plywood. A staff of 2 is all that we use.  1 person is full time fruit culling.  1 person loads fruit and removes pomace.  Somebody had mentioned extra pectin with a belt press.  We only have pectin issues if a large amount of Red Delicious is used.  Which we never put in a fermented cider anyway.

Mike Beck

Uncle John’s Cider Mill

St. John’s, Michigan

[damian mcardle]

Hi Mike,

Do you use this set up for desert pears at all? Is it any good and what kind of yields?

Cheers,
Damian

[Mike Beck]

We actually do...
1000+ bushels every year.
Yields 3000gal.+/-
Williams Pears sweated 2-3 weeks in common cold storage.

We use a float system to move apples through to culling lines. I have to
buy brine water to fill my float tank so the pears don't sink.

Mike Beck
Uncle John's

St. john's, Michigan

[damian mcardle]

Ok good to know. Yeah we have a full saltwater grader set up that I can modify to suit a belt press but it's hard finding the operation using desert pears! Cheers for your advice :)

[nfcider]

That's interesting re pears floating in salt water,if we're pressing we have always run them straight into the mill without dipping as they sink,and I've observed other producers doing this .
Barry

[Mike Beck]

For people that pack pears there is a registered product called Pear
Float(around $500 for 55g. drum). Just a food grade liquid salt. Others
have used calcium chloride "DowFlake 77%" I suppose even sugar could be
used.

We have a wet scrubber where the pears are rinsed of their brine, prior to
crush/press.

I wish I had a few real Perry Pears to throw in there. They essentially do
not exist in Michigan.

Mike beck

Uncle John's Cider Mill

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of nfcider
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:43 AM
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Belt Press vs Rack and Cloth Press

[sean]

it would be nice to see some pictures of the different methods and presses ......

[e owen]

I work the press  in a largish cidermill in New England (juice mill in Brit speak). In my tenure they've evolved from an oesco 32" rack and cloth, upgraded to 42". Now we're running tandem goodnature 36" horizontal presses. These aren't the ones that flip to dump but rotate. Our production is determined by the grinder and runs 1100 us gals an hour right now at peak "drop" season. We do use 50 lbs of rice hulls per 100 bu squeeze, but that's due to an electric motor on the auger not wanting to run slower.
Evan