Campfield Cider Apple
492 views
Skip to first unread message
Bill Carwile
Mar 1, 2017, 12:13:53 PM3/1/17
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Hello,
I have scion wood sourced from the Northwest Cider Association this spring (2017) and plan to graft a couple of trees asap.
It has been suggested by a friend who is much more knowledgeable than me that the Campfield apple currently available in the US may not be true to type.
Does anyone have any input on this and has anyone tested it as a cider apple.
Any information that anyone has is much appreciated. Much thanks!
Bill Carwile
Claude Jolicoeur
Mar 1, 2017, 12:36:51 PM3/1/17
to Cider Workshop
Bill,
Campfield is an old american bittersweet that was traditionally blended with Harrison and Graniwinkle (that was 200 years ago...)
It has been tested by Washington State University, and test results in effect indicate bittersweet properties - low acidity and high tanin content. You can find these reports on the WSU web site.
If you got your wood from NW Cider Ass, no boubt that it should be the same as tested by WSU.
However to the question if it the same as described by Coxe 200 years ago, I am afraid no one has a sure answer...
Claude
Campfield is an old american bittersweet that was traditionally blended with Harrison and Graniwinkle (that was 200 years ago...)
It has been tested by Washington State University, and test results in effect indicate bittersweet properties - low acidity and high tanin content. You can find these reports on the WSU web site.
If you got your wood from NW Cider Ass, no boubt that it should be the same as tested by WSU.
However to the question if it the same as described by Coxe 200 years ago, I am afraid no one has a sure answer...
Claude
Wes Cherry
Mar 1, 2017, 12:43:11 PM3/1/17
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
I got some campfield fruit from WSU this year
hard as a rock, very green, rich flavor but starchy iirc. Picked up 20 oct. pressed 6 dec still not fully ripe - they hadn't changed much when sweating. Co-fermented with muscat de bernay about 66% campfield Ph 4.17 og 1.050
Now 1.007, pale yellow cider with a tinge of green. Unremarkable bittersweet cider. No significant aroma, Wound up tannins with a lingering astringency.
I wouldn't plant them. Though they were probably picked early and maybe a properly tree ripened campfield would be better.
--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Bill Carwile
Mar 1, 2017, 12:50:55 PM3/1/17
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Claude,
Thanks much for the reply. I am hopeful it will make a good juice for blending,
I did source the wood from the NW Cider Association and as you point out, it should be the same as tested by WSU.
Thanks again,
Bill
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjol...@gmail.com>
To: Cider Workshop <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:36 PM
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Campfield Cider Apple
Claude Jolicoeur
Mar 1, 2017, 1:56:06 PM3/1/17
to Cider Workshop
Le mercredi 1 mars 2017 12:36:51 UTC-5, Claude Jolicoeur a écrit :
However to the question if it the same as described by Coxe 200 years ago, I am afraid no one has a sure answer...
To come back to the question of trueness to name, we need to understand the story of these varieties...
A number ol cider varieties were quite popular during the 1800's in the US, including Virginia (or Hewes) Crab, Harrison, Graniwinkle and Campfield. However came prohibition and most cider apple orchards were destroyed. Naturally, these cider varieties weren't planted anymore. However a few trees did escape destruction and survived to modern times.
Now imagine someone finding one such tree - it is very old and, naturally, doesn't have a name tag on it... Sometimes it is near an old cider mill and that is a fair indication. However, identification of such an old tree is no easy task. We need to refer to the descriptions in ancient books - and photography didn't exist then. Hence all we can say is that the fruit and tree do correspond (or not) to the description given in such book. But this is by no mean a certitude that it is the same variety - it may just be similar, no one knows for sure. On the other hand, you can be pretty sure no one will come to say that the apple now accepted as, for example, the Harrison is not the same than the one he has known under that name 200 years ago... So in the end, we now have those cider varieties, and we have accepted to call them by those names without being 100% sure they are really the same as the varieties known by these same names 200 years ago. And everybody is quite happy with this...
Claude
A number ol cider varieties were quite popular during the 1800's in the US, including Virginia (or Hewes) Crab, Harrison, Graniwinkle and Campfield. However came prohibition and most cider apple orchards were destroyed. Naturally, these cider varieties weren't planted anymore. However a few trees did escape destruction and survived to modern times.
Now imagine someone finding one such tree - it is very old and, naturally, doesn't have a name tag on it... Sometimes it is near an old cider mill and that is a fair indication. However, identification of such an old tree is no easy task. We need to refer to the descriptions in ancient books - and photography didn't exist then. Hence all we can say is that the fruit and tree do correspond (or not) to the description given in such book. But this is by no mean a certitude that it is the same variety - it may just be similar, no one knows for sure. On the other hand, you can be pretty sure no one will come to say that the apple now accepted as, for example, the Harrison is not the same than the one he has known under that name 200 years ago... So in the end, we now have those cider varieties, and we have accepted to call them by those names without being 100% sure they are really the same as the varieties known by these same names 200 years ago. And everybody is quite happy with this...
Claude
Bill Carwile
Mar 1, 2017, 4:05:43 PM3/1/17
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Claude,
Point well taken!
Bill
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 1:56 PM
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Campfield Cider Apple
AW
Mar 2, 2017, 10:41:05 AM3/2/17
to Cider Workshop, bcarw...@yahoo.com
From Coxe (Campfield is Apple No 84 described, bookended by Harrison and Granniwinkle.
"This apple is next in reputation as a cider fruit to the Harrison; and is usually mixed with that apple in equal portions when ground: the size is middleing, the skin is smooth and red,with small indistinct yellow spots, the side from the sun a greenish yellow: the flesh is white, firm, sweet and rich; the form is round, flattened, and somewhat sunk at the ends, the cider is very strong and highly flavoured, yielding fourteen quarts of spirit from a barrel.....
Scott Smith
Mar 2, 2017, 10:41:09 AM3/2/17
to Cider Workshop
On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 12:43:11 PM UTC-5, Wes Cherry wrote:
hard as a rock, very green, rich flavor but starchy iirc. Picked up 20 oct. pressed 6 dec still not fully ripe - they hadn't changed much when sweating.
Campfield is a traditional New Jersey cider apple. It sounds like it needs a longer season than Washington offers. So, while it is probably not good for the northwest it could be very good in places with a longer season. I have Campfield in Maryland and am only getting a few apples off them now, but it looks promising.
Scott
Bill Carwile
Mar 2, 2017, 11:12:06 AM3/2/17
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Scott,
I would be interested in hearing more as you get more Campfield apples from your trees grown in Maryland.
I am just a "backyard " apple grower with about a dozen varieties, mostly cider apples including one Harrison and a Hewes Crab and since I have a couple of pieces of Campfiels scionwood from NWCA I had planned to graft a couple of Campfield trees this spring.
I have been on the bubble about the Campfield after being cautioned that the Campfield is not true to type but if your suggestion that the Campfield simply needs a longer growing season proves correct, it just might do well for me here in Central Virginia.
I think I'll graft and then decide whether to plant next spring!
Bill
From: Scott Smith <s...@scottfrasersmith.com>
To: Cider Workshop <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Campfield Cider Apple
Claude Jolicoeur
Mar 2, 2017, 11:23:03 AM3/2/17
to Cider Workshop
Le jeudi 2 mars 2017 11:12:06 UTC-5, Bill Carwile a écrit :
I have been on the bubble about the Campfield after being cautioned that the Campfield is not true to type but if your suggestion that the Campfield simply needs a longer growing season proves correct, it just might do well for me here in Central Virginia.
Sure, you'll have to test it in your location.
The true value of an apple can't be assessed by just one or two opinions, moreover when these come from the other side of the continent...
If it doesn't turn good for you, then you can still topgraft the trees, so all is not lost, you still keep these tree structures.
Claude
Jeff Harner
Mar 13, 2017, 7:34:12 AM3/13/17
to Cider Workshop
Scott,
Where are you at in Maryland? I've considered adding Campfield, but growing conditions are far different on the Eastern Shore compared to Western Maryland, for example.
-Jeff
Scott Smith
Mar 13, 2017, 7:50:13 AM3/13/17
to Cider Workshop
Hi Jeff I am near Baltimore.
I have been growing various cider apples for about a dozen years, and my evolved philosophy is the later the better, we have too much heat to get good cider flavors in the earlier apples. Yates fruited for the first time this last year and its also looking good, it is very late (maybe even a touch too late). Gilpin and Winesap are other apples I am growing, along with some astringent crabs.
Scott
Stan Heeres
Mar 16, 2020, 6:01:24 PM3/16/20
to Cider Workshop
My source for Cam[field fell through. Anyone have 1 or 2 scions they would be willing to part with?
Bill Carwile
Mar 18, 2020, 12:59:18 PM3/18/20
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Sorry Stan,
I only have two small non-bearing Campfield trees and I pruned both heavily two weeks ago. Assuming you are in the US, I will be happy to help next winter if you reach out around mid February. Sorry.
Bill C.
--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/48d6c216-fe10-40d5-9d8e-38585d591dab%40googlegroups.com
.
Patrick McCauley
Mar 18, 2020, 3:03:30 PM3/18/20
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
I bought Campfield trees from Raintree Nursery a year ago. Last time I looked they were still selling them. Whether they are the true 19th Century Newark, NJ Campfield, I can't say, but Raintree says they're Campfields.
Pat McCauley
--
Stan Heeres
Mar 20, 2020, 4:25:43 PM3/20/20
to Cider Workshop
If I do not find any, I will take you up on that offer.
Stan
On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 12:59:18 PM UTC-4, Bill Carwile wrote:
Sorry Stan,I only have two small non-bearing Campfield trees and I pruned both heavily two weeks ago. Assuming you are in the US, I will be happy to help next winter if you reach out around mid February. Sorry.Bill C.
My source for Cam[field fell through. Anyone have 1 or 2 scions they would be willing to part with?--
On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-5, Bill Carwile wrote:Hello,I have scion wood sourced from the Northwest Cider Association this spring (2017) and plan to graft a couple of trees asap.It has been suggested by a friend who is much more knowledgeable than me that the Campfield apple currently available in the US may not be true to type.Does anyone have any input on this and has anyone tested it as a cider apple.Any information that anyone has is much appreciated. Much thanks!Bill Carwile
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
Bill Carwile
Mar 21, 2020, 8:42:32 AM3/21/20
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Hope you find some scion wood but if not reach out next February and I will be glad to share.
Bill C.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/9158452b-8a38-4173-9f70-2de82052c7cb%40googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/9158452b-8a38-4173-9f70-2de82052c7cb%40googlegroups.com.
Patrick McCauley
Mar 21, 2020, 9:36:50 AM3/21/20
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
I just googled these and Raintree currently has these in stock as does Trees of Antiquity.
On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 6:01 PM Stan Heeres <stanh...@gmail.com> wrote:
--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/48d6c216-fe10-40d5-9d8e-38585d591dab%40googlegroups.com.
Stan Heeres
Mar 22, 2020, 5:08:26 PM3/22/20
to Cider Workshop
Looking to spend $5 not $40
Thanks. I have checked out tree sources.
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-4, Patrick McCauley wrote:
I just googled these and Raintree currently has these in stock as does Trees of Antiquity.
On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 6:01 PM Stan Heeres <stanh...@gmail.com> wrote:
My source for Cam[field fell through. Anyone have 1 or 2 scions they would be willing to part with?--
On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 12:13:53 PM UTC-5, Bill Carwile wrote:Hello,I have scion wood sourced from the Northwest Cider Association this spring (2017) and plan to graft a couple of trees asap.It has been suggested by a friend who is much more knowledgeable than me that the Campfield apple currently available in the US may not be true to type.Does anyone have any input on this and has anyone tested it as a cider apple.Any information that anyone has is much appreciated. Much thanks!Bill Carwile
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages