perry pears for the 'North'
David Llewellyn
Has anyone got suggestions for perry pears that are both very good for perry, AND reliable for growing in more northern districts? I’m not in Northern England, but in Ireland, so anything doing OK up there might do OK over here, with our cooler conditions, which might prevent late maturing varieties from ripening properly here.
Also, with the incompatibility of perry pears on quince, would it be right to assume that a perry pear would be compatible top-grafted onto any other pear variety which is itself grafted on a quince rootstock?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
David Llewellyn
Tel: + 353 87 2843879
(previously 'fruitandvine.com')
sean
Claude Jolicoeur
Here in Quebec, which is MUCH colder in winter than Ireland (down to -30C) the Thorn and Winnal's Longdon do best. I also have Wellow Huffcap, Gin, Hendre Huffcap and Blakeney Red which all seem quite hardy. Make your choice...
And if you can get some Golden Spice in Ireland, it is worth a trial.
For grafting, if you have a compatible interstem it should be OK.
Claude
David Llewellyn
Thanks Claude,
I wasn’t referring to winter cold. If anything, mild winters without enough chilling would more likely be a problem here in Ireland! It’s our cool growing seasons. Late varieties of apple like Braeburn don’t really mature properly in most seasons; Golden Delicious is about as late as we can grow here, ripening for us late October. So any late ripening perry pear is liable to be unripe hard green things even in November. I’m totally new to perry pears, but I have an assumption that many of them are ‘late’, so that’s why I’m wondering which ones might be regarded as ‘early’, but still of good quality all-round for perry – good sugars, acid and tannins, and finishing to a good quality perry either on their own, blended with other perry pears, or even blended with some dessert pears. There is no tradition of pear growing in Ireland, and certainly none of perry pears.
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Andrew Lea
>
>
> Also, with the incompatibility of perry pears on quince, would it be
> right to assume that a perry pear would be compatible top-grafted onto
> any other pear variety which is itself grafted on a quince rootstock?
stem for perry pears on quince A. But that was 1963 - things may have
moved on since!
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk
David Llewellyn
few other dessert varieties on quince stock. I'm assuming that the reason
Buerre hardy is stated as a good interstem for perry pears is because it
must be particularly compatibible with quince, rather than that it is
particularly compatible with the main scion?? Buerre Hardy is also used as
an interstem for Williams, which is noted for its poor compatibility with
quince.
Sooooo.... I'm assuming that perry pears, being Pyrus communis, would all be
pretty much well compatible grafted onto any dessert pear Pyrus communis.
But I havn't seen this question addressed anywhere yet. Would my assumption
be correct?
>
> Also, with the incompatibility of perry pears on quince, would it be
> right to assume that a perry pear would be compatible top-grafted onto
> any other pear variety which is itself grafted on a quince rootstock?
moved on since!
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk
Cheshire Matt
there is a "Pyrodwarf" root stock - actually middling in vigour. I
didn't have much success last year because due to various reasons I was
forced into grafting and planting out too soon. Some grafts I did for
one of my orchard owners which were kept in a heated greenhouse did a
lot better, around 80% success.
Round here, the pears were all grafted onto pear seedling root stocks.
Most of the them are now best part of 100yrs old and 50ft tall!!
On 18/11/2013 16:08, David Llewellyn wrote:
> The trees I mostly want to top-graft are Concorde on quince stock, also a
> few other dessert varieties on quince stock. I'm assuming that the reason
> Buerre hardy is stated as a good interstem for perry pears is because it
> must be particularly compatibible with quince, rather than that it is
> particularly compatible with the main scion?? Buerre Hardy is also used as
> an interstem for Williams, which is noted for its poor compatibility with
> quince.
>
> Sooooo.... I'm assuming that perry pears, being Pyrus communis, would all be
> pretty much well compatible grafted onto any dessert pear Pyrus communis.
> But I havn't seen this question addressed anywhere yet. Would my assumption
> be correct?
>
> David Llewellyn
> Tel: + 353 87 2843879
> www.llewellynsorchard.ie
> (previously 'fruitandvine.com')
>
> On 17/11/2013 20:49, David Llewellyn wrote:
>> Also, with the incompatibility of perry pears on quince, would it be
>> right to assume that a perry pear would be compatible top-grafted onto
>> any other pear variety which is itself grafted on a quince rootstock?
>
David Llewellyn
a) I have about 100 surplus dessert pear trees (on Quince), 5 years old,
which I need to pull out. Therefore nice potential stock to top-graft and
re-plant by lopping the trees to a 2-3ft trunk and cleft-grafting.
b) I would like to establish a collection of perry pear trees
c) I would like my perry pear trees to be reasonably small, fairly closely
planted, and early bearing
So, I am ideally set up to establish a collection of dwarf/semi-dwarf perry
pear trees, provided my top-grafting idea onto my existing dessert pears
will work, and provided I can get some nice scionwood of some suitable
varieties for damp-cool-summer Ireland.
> moved on since!
>
> Andrew
>
Andrew Lea
>
>
> So, I am ideally set up to establish a collection of dwarf/semi-dwarf perry
> pear trees, provided my top-grafting idea onto my existing dessert pears
> will work, and provided I can get some nice scionwood of some suitable
> varieties for damp-cool-summer Ireland.
or at least don't post. So you are shouting into thin air here. You need
to get in touch with Jim Chapman who manages the UK collection of perry
pears.
http://gloucestershireorchardtrust.org.uk/varieties/collections/perry-pear-update/
And look at Charles Martell's book here
http://www.gloucestershireorchardgroup.org.uk/perry_pears.pdf (quite a
big download)
David Llewellyn
Chapman.
David Llewellyn
Claude,
Yes I see in your book you mention that of the English perry pears you are trialling, you have only had real success with Thorn, and you suspect that you do not have the right conditions to ripen most perry pear varieties. Is this because of insufficiently warm summers, or some other reason? I'm wondering how your experience might transpose to my situation in Ireland. Those other varieties, and more, are available to me to buy trees of or obtain scionwood from, in the UK, and your experience in Quebec could form part of the benchmark I need to form in my head in order to make the most informed decisions for what to plant here.
Looking at the climate of Quebec City, it seems you have higher summer temperatures from June to August, but it seems you have a more abrupt and earlier transition from warm to cold weather at summer’s end. Seems maybe you also have a later but more pronounced start of mild/warm weather in April/May.
Can you tell me, where you are located, what kind of apple varieties is your own climate capable of ripening? For me here, Golden Delicious is about as late as we can go, ready for picking late October, or often into November, in some seasons not really developing properly at all. We are too cool to grow Braeburn successfully, and way too cool to have any chance at all with Granny Smith. This is due to our cool summers, with relatively low degree days/heat units, relatively low summer mean and maximum temperatures.
I'm about to plant more than 100 Perry pears (which I will top-graft onto existing trees I have), but I have grave fears that I might be about to do something doomed to failure!! If I'm to proceed with it, I will be trying to plant the majority of trees with varieties most likely to succeed, e.g. Thorn. And I am happy then to plant a ‘collection’ of multiple other varieties with maybe 1 tree of each.
David
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Claude Jolicoeur
Sent: 17 November 2013 23:40
To:
cider-w...@googlegroups.com
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Claude Jolicoeur
And you are right about the abrupt start - this is in part due to the snow cover: with about 4 to 6 feet of snow on the ground in mid-winter, by the time this snow melts in spring, it is quite late in the season and all tree varieties start at the same time - hence there is no such thing here as difference in bloom time for varieties - they all bloom almost simultaneously... Also, never had any late frost problem!
And later than October 15, no maturation occurs anymore because it is too cold. Some fruit may stick to the tree but I don't think much happens in terms of increasing the maturation.
Interestingly, some fruit adapt to this quite well, and even ripen earlier than in UK - e.g. Yarlington Mill, Brown's Apple.
Other fruit don't size and never mature properly - e.g. Chisel Jersey.
Many fruit will do right but won't have the same properties as seen in other climates - e.g. pears are more astringent here, acidity and tannin may have very different values - here Brown's Apple is much more acidic than numbers I have seen for UK (see in the book).
The outcome of this - it is necessary to make tests to find what works best! Your particular soil will make a difference also.
Of other apple varieties, Golden Del - never tried, but generally considered too cold tender to survive here. Breaburn and Granny S, we don't even think about it...
Claude
David Llewellyn
Well Claude, it looks like my climate has more in common with the ‘Three Counties’ region in England, than with Quebec! But over there they do have higher daily maximum temperatures in summer than we have, by a couple of degrees, and also less wind exposure than where I am. Pear full bloom with me is roughly 2nd half of April.
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canuck...@gmail.com
This is an old Dead thread but is highly ranked in google searches. I’m wondering if you can give a summary of your experience 6 years later?