Ray Press Plans

[Handmade Cider]

I have been looking about for plans for a press for a mate who wants to start making this season. I have found a few designs but I was particularly looking for plans for Ray Blockleys press, which I thought were on the website or in the archive but I cannot find them.

Am I missing something obvious?

Cheers,

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

[Ray Blockley]

They were on another site, Denis but they were deleted & not on here yet. I'll email you direct a zip of photos so you can use them as a guide? Or you could go on ebay & buy a set of identical plans copied by an enterprising entrepreneur who nicked them off the old site were I'd put them as a free resource....

Ray.

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[Mark Evens]

My press design (which is featured in the cider enthusiasts manual) is also available for download at http://ncorchards.co.uk/download/Building_an_Apple_Press.pdf if it is any help.
Mark

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le samedi 8 octobre 2016 13:31:45 UTC-4, Handmade Cider a écrit :

I have been looking about for plans for a press for a mate who wants to start making this season.

Denis, there is also a press design in my book (The New Cider Maker's Handbook), with pictures of the press there:
https://goo.gl/photos/XvykrqJ8x3V5xPR16

Claude

[Handmade Cider]

Ray - I started using un grooved HDPE two years ago and last season routed the whole lot. My cheeses were sliding like crazy, partly down to the smooth surfaces meaning the cloths did not 'lock in' to the grooves, but mainly that there were no routes for the juice to escape from the centre of the cheese. There was a very noticeably difference in the ease of pressing between the grooved racks and the ungrooved ones. However, my cheeses are 33inch by 33inch, so there is a lot further for the juice to flow 'in cheese' and I do tend to press all my fruit late when soft and therefore high in pectin.

Thanks for the link Claude I will pass it on.

Denis

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

[Seva Nechaev]

Ray - I started using un grooved HDPE two years ago and last season routed the whole lot. My cheeses were sliding like crazy, partly down to the smooth surfaces meaning the cloths did not 'lock in' to the grooves, but mainly that there were no routes for the juice to escape from the centre of the cheese. 

Noticed the same thing on my 14inch racks of steel: when the juice comes out, cheese is sliding on its thin layer. The force that makes it slide is a result of a non-ideal cheeses form and alignment. Its is rather small actually, just the friction is too low. So I ended up tying the cheese to the rack with small strips of cloth (grooving is not an option for thin a steel sheet). 

[Martin campling]

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 9:47:58 PM UTC+1, Mark Evens wrote:

My press design (which is featured in the cider enthusiasts manual) is also available for download at http://ncorchards.co.uk/download/Building_an_Apple_Press.pdf if it is any help.
Mark

I built two presses similar to that shown in Mark's pdf. The one I built last year used the various formulae in Claude Jolicoeur's book and uses a 15-tonne bottle jack. I've attached a picture of it. However, at the end of the day that the picture was taken, it failed. What happened was that one of the lower two beams split horizontally around one of the bolts. I replaced it and, in order to strengthen it, I added a piece of angle iron across the entire length to prevent bowing and also put in a piece of angle iron under each end as extra support as shown in the second picture. It managed quite a few pressing after that with no problem. I mention this since it may be worth doing as a precaution. Engineering calculations are all well and good if you have specific details of the tensile strength, elasticity etc of the materials (such as for the stainless steel threaded rods) but for wood its more hit and miss.  

Cheers,

    Martin

[Martin campling]

Sorry, just realised I downloaded the wrong picture...

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le lundi 10 octobre 2016 22:29:07 UTC+2, Martin campling a écrit :

I built two presses similar to that shown in Mark's pdf. The one I built last year used the various formulae in Claude Jolicoeur's book and uses a 15-tonne bottle jack. I've attached a picture of it. However, at the end of the day that the picture was taken, it failed. What happened was that one of the lower two beams split horizontally around one of the bolts. I replaced it and, in order to strengthen it, I added a piece of angle iron across the entire length to prevent bowing and also put in a piece of angle iron under each end as extra support as shown in the second picture. It managed quite a few pressing after that with no problem. I mention this since it may be worth doing as a precaution. Engineering calculations are all well and good if you have specific details of the tensile strength, elasticity etc of the materials (such as for the stainless steel threaded rods) but for wood its more hit and miss.  

Martin, I might be wrong, but my impression from looking at your pictures is if a beam failed around a bolt, it is because you did not groove the uprights as recommended in the book. Bolts alone are not good enough to retain the load. And actually, it is not so much the bolts that may fail, but the wood around them - which is what you have experienced. With grooves, the load is taken by the grooving and not by the bolts.

Claude

[Thomas Fehige]

Martin, the bolts are only meant to keep things together, not to take the load of the pressing. You need to notch (or whatever the English expression is) the crossbeams into the uprights; the shoulders of these notches will take the load. This is very nicely explained and illustrated in Claude's book.

OK, Claude said the same thing just now.

Cheers -- Thomas

[Martin campling]

Martin, I might be wrong, but my impression from looking at your pictures is if a beam failed around a bolt, it is because you did not groove the uprights as recommended in the book. Bolts alone are not good enough to retain the load. And actually, it is not so much the bolts that may fail, but the wood around them - which is what you have experienced. With grooves, the load is taken by the grooving and not by the bolts.

Claude

Yes, I did notch the top beam, but in a rather odd way that has drawn some comment from other people who have seen it (see picture) but there was a reason for this thinking. I considered the notch idea for the bottom two beams but I decided against it because I was not at all confident in the strength of the wood and that it would take the stress in the sheer plane. It probably would have but, instead, I decided to use the threaded rods to perform the bulk of the load-bearing because these came with quantified values of various engineering parameters. The angle bracket underneath is now a substitute for the notch, though probably not as strong.

 Martin

 

[Ray Blockley]

I simply used good old strong waterproof wood glue (Evo Stick Resin W here in the UK) plus the bolts for my basic press - which to be fair was over 20 years ago & I was more or less flying blind... :-)

So just pointing out that modern wood glues are incredibly strong, especially in shear. 

BTW: I'd appreciate changing the title of this thread as it has very little to do with me or my (now historical) plans...............   

Thanks. Ray. 

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[Thomas Fehige]

Martin, that "notch" is the wrong way round. As it is it could work as a wedge, especially in dry weather when the wood shrinks. When that happens, the crossbeam will split at the bolts.

Notching is an ancient and well-proved method for making a joint like this. Iirc, Claude gives the measurements for a safe notch depth and for the length of wood required above the notch to make sure it will carry the shearing load. Especially shrinking and swelling of the wood is taken into account, if you make the bolt-holes, say, a millimetre bigger than the bolts to allow for a little shifting upwards snug against the shoulder of the notch. The bolts can be kept much smaller, as they only need to take an axial load. Only make sure they don't dig into the softwood; big sturdy washers will help.

Another thing: Softwood for the uprights is fine, only try to find some with smaller knots, preferably none at all. They are points where the wood is weakened in incalculable ways.

Cheers -- Thomas

[Seva Nechaev]

So just pointing out that modern wood glues are incredibly strong, especially in shear. 

I was told there will be a big difference between short and prolonged stress. If stress is short, glue holds and is even stronger than wood. But if stress is applied for along time, glue may behave as a very viscous liquid. In some degree, it is. So with constant stress, especially splitting, modern glue may be not so good. Not our case though.

[Ray Blockley]

All I'm saying is I never had a problem in the dozen or so years I used & developed my simple press, up to using a 20 tonne jack pressing over 1000L each season.

You pay your money & you take your choice. It is down to the individual & I am not saying how it *should* be done - & I repeat: this was 20 years ago.

Ray.

On 11 Oct 2016 17:43, "Seva Nechaev" <rap...@gmail.com> wrote:

So just pointing out that modern wood glues are incredibly strong, especially in shear. 

I was told there will be a big difference between short and prolonged stress. If stress is short, glue holds and is even stronger than wood. But if stress is applied for along time, glue may behave as a very viscous liquid. In some degree, it is. So with constant stress, especially splitting, modern glue may be not so good. Not our case though.

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[Mark Evens]

I should point out that the design in my PDF utilises mortise and tenon joints. The bolts do not take any stress from the press and there is no glue. I would not want to rely on bolts or glue. Fwiw there is a better write-up of my design in the Haynes cider enthusiast's manual. Also if anyone wants a sketchup file of it, I may be able to oblige via a pm.