Gomark aquapress

[Bittersweet]

Dear groupies - just wondering if anyone has experience of using the
Gomark 250 aquapress from Slovenia? I'd appreciate any input on the
subject. Thank you...

[Andrew Lea]

I think it's the same as what Oesco in the US import and sell as the
Lancman.
https://www.oescoinc.com/lancman-water-operated-juice-presses-p-4291.html?osCsid=9d65e8f719b00125e7899968ce4eecc8

I have seen a smaller one (though not in use) and it looked good and
robust.
https://picasaweb.google.com/HarpHill/20101215MichiganExpo?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNOljbOH09GWrwE&feat=directlink

All these hydraulic bladder presses need a good fine pulp to work
efficiently, so you need to get a mill which is designed to accompany it.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Claude Jolicoeur]

You are obviously talking about this:
http://www.gomark.si/2009/index.asp?IdSkupine=1&lang=eng

Gomark is, from what I can understand, the company that builts the
Lancman presses.
I have a friend who has one of them and he is very pleased. I have
seen his installation at work, and it is very nice. See
http://bearswamporchard.com/page8/page8.html

However, I can see a few drawbacks to these presses:
-pressure is lower and the yield also lower than a good hydraulic
press
-requires a lot of water, loss of water - not ecological...
-water needs to be at relatively high pressure (3 bars)
(these 2 last points would make it unusable at my orchard where I have
a surface well and low pressure given by gravity only...)
-durability of the rubber bladder unknown. Will you be able to change
it in 25 years?
-needs to be fully loaded, will be ackward to use with a partial load.
Claude

[Bittersweet]

You're right, Claude - I am talking about http://www.gomark.si/2009/index.asp?IdSkupine=1&lang=eng

I believe you can use a water reservoir and pressure vessel to recycle
the pressing water, which though not a free solution would save most
of the water problems.

I'm not sure we'd be looking to press partial loads, so that's not a
problem.

However, I have heard that yield is likely to be very low at around
35-55%. Has anyone else found that to be the case?

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Bittersweet wrote:
> However, I have heard that yield is likely to be very low at around
> 35-55%. Has anyone else found that to be the case?

You could ask that directly to Steve Gougeon, who owns the press for
which I gave the link earlier (Bear Swamp Orchard)
app...@bearswamporchard.com

He is very nice person (like all of us apple growers and cider makers)
and I am sure he will reply honestly. Note that the yield is highly
dependant on the grinding of the apples. Also keep in mind these
presses were designed for grapes and not for apples...
Claude

[Carl LeClair]

Claude,

I have been in contact with Oesco with respect to their apple grinder
and lancman bladder press as well. I read Andrew's comment.....

"All these hydraulic bladder presses need a good fine pulp to work
efficiently, so you need to get a mill which is designed to accompany
it. "

Do you know if this is the case with the Oesco grinder?
I ask only that I am still undecided with respect to these type
( Bladder )
press. My preference would be a traditional cheese press sands the $$$
$.
Sounds like I may be putting the cart in front of the horse?

Regards,

Carl

[Andrew Lea]

On 13/07/2011 20:01, Carl LeClair wrote:
> Claude,
>
> I have been in contact with Oesco with respect to their apple grinder
> and lancman bladder press as well. I read Andrew's comment.....
>
> "All these hydraulic bladder presses need a good fine pulp to work
> efficiently, so you need to get a mill which is designed to accompany
> it. "
>
> Do you know if this is the case with the Oesco grinder?
>

Yes it is! I talked to Oesco at the Michigan Expo last year (where my
pictures were taken) and the grinder they sell for the Lancman press was
designed in house by Oesco themselves and is built on contract for them
in the US. It is specially matched to give the fineness of pulp which
the Lancman requires. That is what they told me and I have no reason to
doubt it. The set-up at the Expo was also coupled to a rather neat
elevator too. I have added two extra pictures to my Picasa album to show
them (no pic of grinder internals I'm afraid but it was fundamentally a
stainless grater mill AFAIR). Only thing I'll say is it was a 'dry' and
not a working set-up! I suggest you push them for yield figures etc but
I'm sure they were higher than 35%!!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Andrew wrote:
>I have added two extra pictures to my Picasa album to show
>them (no pic of grinder internals I'm afraid but it was fundamentally a
>stainless grater mill AFAIR)

Here is a picture of the OESCO grinder rotor I took in 2009 at CiderDays,
where it was in demonstration. The rotor is HDPE, and the teeth, I am not
too sure, either carbide or SS.
And as Andrew said, it was designed to go with the waterpress.
Claude

[Andrew Lea]

Good pic Claude! Now why didn't I take one ;-) I think the teeth are
actually carbide. The housing is SS.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk

[Carl LeClair]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the reply and info.
Here is Oesco's claim as to performance of the bladder press that they
replied to my inquiry.

"We usually bring the VSPI-X80 press to demo along with the stand
alone grinder. The VSPIX80 is the smallest of the four bladder presses
we carry, with a capacity of around 4.5 bushels of ground apples.
Typically we see cider yields in the range of 3 gallons per bushel.
You can comfortably do two pressings an hour with this press. So you
would be looking at around 25 gallons of cider an hour."

I asked a followup question as to the possibility of an option for a
courser grind as would be required by a cheese press.
I like the Oesco unit as Claude had made a good point about this unit
being more suited to our type of electrical connections
(115 ) vs. (220) amps in the States. Otherwise I am back to the
trumpet type grinder that Mid-West offers. I will inquire as to the
type of grind this one is set up to do, which may be the same as in
the States it seems Hydraulic cheese presses are not offered.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/16-gallon-apple-shredder.html

Regards,

Carl

[Andrew Lea]

On 13/07/2011 21:43, Carl LeClair wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thanks for the reply and info.
> Here is Oesco's claim as to performance of the bladder press that they
> replied to my inquiry.
>
> "We usually bring the VSPI-X80 press to demo along with the stand
> alone grinder. The VSPIX80 is the smallest of the four bladder presses
> we carry, with a capacity of around 4.5 bushels of ground apples.
> Typically we see cider yields in the range of 3 gallons per bushel.
>

If your bushel is 42 pounds, I calculate that as a yield of 62% (though
I'd want to be sure the yields remain the same as the volume of the unit
goes up, because the hydraulic input pressure remains the same whatever
the size). The German Speidel hydropress system sold here by Vigo quotes
yields up to 65%. A good pack press should get you up in to the mid
70%s. However, there are many advantages to a hydraulic press, not least
no need for power supply if you have mains pressure water, no need for
complex machinery and easy to clean.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk

[Carl LeClair]

I have received these reply's to my questions about these apple
grinders.

Oesco's:

"The grinder isn’t set up specifically for the requirements of a
bladder press and it is not adjustable, it doesn’t need to be. It is
designed to grind the apples into a chunky applesauce which is
appropriate for rack and cloth presses as well as bladder presses. In
fact, the pounds per square inch of pressure applied to the pomace in
the bladder press as the bladder expands is very close to the pressure
applied in the big hydraulic rack and cloth presses we manufacture.
That’s one of the reasons the yield is so good on the bladder presses.
They are also much easier to clean than the cheese type presses. I
have a customer in New Hampshire who purchased one of our bladder
presses while his friend purchased a squeeze box press. His buddy is
kicking himself for not buying the bladder press. His yield isn’t as
good and clean up is a real chore."

Mid West Supply:

The 16 gallon apple shredder slices apples to pieces 9/16" or smaller.

Regards,

Carl

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Carl, I agree with this statement:

> "The grinder isn’t set up specifically for the requirements of a
> bladder press and it is not adjustable, it doesn’t need to be. It is
> designed to grind the apples into a chunky applesauce which is
> appropriate for rack and cloth presses as well as bladder presses.

However, as a mechanical engineer, I totally disagree with this one:

> fact, the pounds per square inch of pressure applied to the pomace in
> the bladder press as the bladder expands is very close to the pressure
> applied in the big hydraulic rack and cloth presses we manufacture.

The valve at the entrance of the press is set to something like 45 psi
(3 bars) so the actual pressure in the bladder will never exceed this
number, which is about half of what you get in big presses with
hydraulic cylinder. On the other hand, the increase in yield from 45
to 90 psi is not that great, but still not negligible.

> have a customer in New Hampshire who purchased one of our bladder
> presses while his friend purchased a squeeze box press. His buddy is
> kicking himself for not buying the bladder press. His yield isn’t as
> good and clean up is a real chore."

I am not too sure what a squeeze box is here... Is it this Goodnature
press?
http://www.goodnature.com/Juice_Equipment/Juice_Presses/sx200.php

Claude

[Wes Cherry]

Yep, they are carbide inserts, used for milling and lathe operations in machine shops.

It's kinda funny that inserts designed for cutting the hardest metals - hardened steel, stainless steel and titanium - are used on apples! They ought to last a lifetime, and the lifetimes of your heirs.

-Wes

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[Dick Dunn]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 04:20:25PM -0700, Wes Cherry wrote:
> Yep, they are carbide inserts, used for milling and lathe operations in machine shops.
>
> It's kinda funny that inserts designed for cutting the hardest metals - hardened steel, stainless steel and titanium - are used on apples! They ought to last a lifetime, and the lifetimes of your heirs.

Funny but practical, more from the standpoint of the metals being inert
wrt acidity of apples than their sheer hardness. Carbide would actually
be at a disadvantage if you took in a stone.

I've seen a scratter drum made using short pieces of stainless welding rod
set perpendicular to the axis of the drum.

--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Matt Eldridge]

 Did anyone see Rick Steins new programme last night on Spain? There was a lot of cider or Sidra being poured from a great height, a cider restaurant and what looked to be a really good festival. Sadly no making was shown but I never knew Cider was so popular in Spain.
 
 Matt in Ely
 
www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk
 

[Michael Cobb]

I haven't seen the programme yet but I have seen a Sidra "throwing"
demonstation at the Bath and West a few years ago. I believe they like to
get a lot of air in the Sidra as they pour it and this may be in part
because it tends to be acidic, or so I was told.

Michael Cobb

[Raymond Blockley]

My in-laws live in Spain (east coast) so we go over at least once a year and yes, Sidra is very popular - in anything from tourist-focused bars through to little beauties where they know their stuff. Northern Spain (Austuria and Basque / Pyrenees) is the best place to look. Barcelona has a few good places with a range of sidras and excellent tapas.

You can find a wide range of bottled sidras in most supermarkets, some are quite sharp but others are really good. The theory that part of the ancient primordial fruit forests clung on in northern Iberia perhaps explains why the local indigenous apples are quite sharp as is their sidra. 

Well worth a trip off the tourist route. I think one of the best explorations of the sidra and associated cuisine on TV was by the "Hairy Bikers" a few years back.

 

Cheers, Ray.

--
Ray B

[Matt Eldridge]

 Yes I think you are correct in that it 'breaks' the cider and makes it somehow less acidic. Perhaps this is something we could adopt here in East Anglia, with our acidic dessert/culinary cider, olay!
 
Matt in Ely

www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk

 

> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:56:54 +0100
> Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Rick Stein in Spain
> From: ci...@buhund.clara.net
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Edu V Coto]

Well, sidra is for Asturias as baguettes for France.
Asturias, with 1 mill people produce everyyear 45mill liters natural cider (not sweet) and another 40mill sweet sparkling cider (most for export)
And 90% of the natural cider is consumed in Asturias.

We could say is one of the oldest cider regions in Europe, the first document which tell us about orchards is from 793 when Asturias become the only christian kingdom in Spain (the rest was taken by moors.

You will be able to know the asturian cider in the Welsh Perry and Cider Festival in August

best regards,

Edu ( European corresponsal for La Sidra Magazine in Frankfurt)

2011/7/15 Raymond Blockley <raymond_...@sky.com>

--
Eduardo Vázquez Coto
Frankfurt am Main

[Roy Bailey]

I wish people would start a new thread with a new subject, instead of
just altering the title of the existing one. I receive a daily
abridged summary, and when I clicked on the heading 'Rick Stein in
Spain' I got a thread entitled 'Gomark aquapress'. This is very
confusing, and I had to scroll down a long way to find the topic I
wanted. Not the first time this has happened.

This is like buying a book entitled 'War and Peace' and finding that
it contains the text of 'Confessions of a Window Cleaner' instead.

Roy.

[Matt Eldridge]

 I'm a little hurt that you consider my post to be so lacking in substance Roy but I take your point, apologies, will do better next time.
 
Matt in Ely

www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk

 

> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:03:41 -0700
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Rick Stein in Spain
> From: con...@lambournvalleycider.co.uk
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[from Heather]

I was sort of under the impression that the throwing was like a way of lightly carbonating it. Or maybe that is just a perk.

We get a few Spanish cider imports here. My husband, who loves sour beers, loves one from the Basque region that is quite funky. If you don't wash your glass afterwards, every cider you taste will smell like it. Someday, I'm going to have figure out how it is made. Hmm, travel?

Heather

> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:56:54 +0100

> Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Rick Stein in Spain
> From: ci...@buhund.clara.net
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Brad Harper]

Yes I know this is an older thread but I believe it is a good thing to update errors posted on Oesco's website regarding their bladder presses....
****
Hi I believe the bushel capacity is wrong as listed on the Oesco website for all models.(see [URL="http://www.oescoinc.com/orchard-nursery/lancman-water-presses/lancman-vspi-x250-water-operated-bladder-press.html"]http://www.oescoinc.com/orchard-nursery/lancman-water-presses/lancman-vspi-x250-water-operated-bladder-press.html[/URL]
Take for example the 250L model...
1 bushel = 35.2 Liters.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_measure"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_measure[/URL]

or see the conversion:
[URL="http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/volume/convert-liter-l-to-bushel-bu-us.html"]http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/volume/convert-liter-l-to-bushel-bu-us.html[/URL]


Therefore, 80L/35.2L =  2.3 Bushels  about half of what they post on their website...
I have emailed them but they have not responded yet..
My 90L bladder press only holds about 2.5 bushels of apples(crushed) and this makes sense: 90L/35L  =2.5 Bushels
...
Brad Harper, Sparta, Wisconsin

[Andrew Lea]

On 20/11/2013 05:03, Brad Harper wrote:
> Yes I know this is an older thread but I believe it is a good thing to
> update errors posted on Oesco's website regarding their bladder presses....
> ****

>

> Therefore, 80L/35.2L = 2.3 Bushels about half of what they post on
> their website...
>

Surely that's because when you mill a bushel of apples it only gives you
half a bushel of pulp. The rest is the airspace between the apples,
which disappears. They are quoting pulp volumes, not apple volumes.

One good reason for sticking to weight or mass, not volume, IMHO.

Andrew


--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Andrew Lea]

On 20/11/2013 11:00, Andrew Lea wrote:


> They are quoting pulp volumes, not apple volumes.
>

Sorry I got that the wrong way round of course! They are quoting apple
volumes and you are quoting pulp volumes.

[Thomas Fehige]

2 cents re bladder presses: A long time apple juice maker near Hamburg has conducted and documented a pretty systematic test of the various presses he has used over the years in his shop. He has finally chosen to use four of the 90-Litre Speidel bladder presses. His tests show that with loading, pressing, emptying and final cleaning they are the most time/personnel efficient ones. He reports that one person has pressed one metric ton of apples in five hours of unhurried work (not counting coffee and lunch breaks etc.). The apples had been milled the day before.

Partial pressings are possible, he says. You just have to pre-inflate the press with some water before you fill in the pulp. That's what he apparently also does when he wants to increase juicing efficiency. In one of his tests, he gets 68.4 Liters per 100 kgs of apples.

Cheers -- Thomas

[Jez Howat]

Of course, milling your apples the day before is doing half the work. So his test is partially flawed in any case.

However, I guess that is useful for pressing times...

Jez

[Thomas Fehige]

I'm not sure if he always does (did?) it like that, but after all he was comparing presses, not mills. He'd probably want a second person to feed the apples into the washer-cum-mill while he works the presses, in order to do it simultaneously.

Cheers -- Thomas