Dosage Fermaid-O

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Hi everyone,

I need some advices on Fermaid-O addition to stimulate an almost stuck fermentation.

I had to rack a couple of cider batches to decrease the H2S smell. It has worked. My gravities are of about 1,025 and speed of fermentation before racking was around 20. I fear that this racking is about to stabilise the gravity of the cider to make a sweet cider instead of a medium (my goal). Am I right to think that my gravity might get stuck at around 1,20 ish?

If I want to drop the gravity of around 10 point, I think I have read somewhere that around 25 ppm of DAP would be required, which contains about 5 mgN/L. I've also read that Fermaid-O contains 4 time less nitrogen that DAP (www.vawa.net/YANTable.pdf).

Can I just assume that 100 ppm of Fermaid-O will do it or organic and inorganic yeast nutrients don't work the same way? Sorry if the question look a bit obvious but it is not always easy to get a naturally sweet cider and it would be sad to let it go to dryness for a bad yeast nutrient calculation.

Thank you very much,

Louis 

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 23 janvier 2018 00:57:09 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

I need some advices on Fermaid-O addition to stimulate an almost stuck fermentation.

Louis, I don't think Fermaid-O is the ideal type of nutrient for what you want to do.
Fermaid-O is slow release nutrient, it is designed to feed an existing yeast population and prevent H2S production.
If you want to increase fermentation speed, you need to increase the yeast population, and for this you need some YAN, or free N that is easily and quickly available to be converted into yeast biomass - and for this you need DAP.
 

I had to rack a couple of cider batches to decrease the H2S smell. It has worked. My gravities are of about 1,025 and speed of fermentation before racking was around 20. I fear that this racking is about to stabilise the gravity of the cider to make a sweet cider instead of a medium (my goal). Am I right to think that my gravity might get stuck at around 1,20 ish?

I would give it some time, and evaluate the FSU you have after racking before doing anything else.
It might still reach 1.018 without adding nutrients (albeit slowly) and you can then bottle with a bit of DAP for another 4 points drop in bottle and a medium.

 

If I want to drop the gravity of around 10 point, I think I have read somewhere that around 25 ppm of DAP would be required, which contains about 5 mgN/L. I've also read that Fermaid-O contains 4 time less nitrogen that DAP (www.vawa.net/YANTable.pdf).

According to the Scott Lab Cider Handbook, 250 ppm of DAP provides 50 ppm of N, while 250 ppm of Fermaid-O provides 10 ppm N - so 5 times less. However, as mentioned above, this N provided by Fermaid-O will only be available gradually, little bit by bit, for an every day feeding.

Can I just assume that 100 ppm of Fermaid-O will do it or organic and inorganic yeast nutrients don't work the same way? Sorry if the question look a bit obvious but it is not always easy to get a naturally sweet cider and it would be sad to let it go to dryness for a bad yeast nutrient calculation.

So, no they don't work the same way as explained above. And as you say it would be sad to have this go all the way to dryness. You might be better off with a sweet if that is what you are naturally getting?
Claude

[Wes Cherry]

The h2s could also be caused by B vitamin deficiency.    For that reason I would pick Fermaid K, which also contains DAP.

-'//es Cherry

Dragon's Head Cider

Vashon Island, Wa US

www.dragonsheadcider.com

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Thank you very much,

I'll follow both of your advises. I'll wait a month or so and then check gravity and FSU. If it's too low, i'll add a small amount of fermaid K to insure no further H2S problems.

I agree with you Claude that it might be better to have a sweet cider than a too dry one (considering a TA of 6 to 7) but my initial gravity was also quite low (table apples...) so too sweet isn't the best neither.

Louis

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le jeudi 25 janvier 2018 00:08:28 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

I'll follow both of your advises. I'll wait a month or so and then check gravity and FSU. If it's too low, i'll add a small amount of fermaid K to insure no further H2S problems.

Fermaid K is like mixing some DAP with Fermaid O. The only thing with K is we don't know how much of each there is... From Scott HB, 10% is given as N (while 20% of DAP is N), but part of it will be slow release, and not readily available for yeast population growth.
For my part, I think I'd rather add the right dosage of DAP to obtain just the SG drop I need, and a bit of O for feeding.
But if you like to experiment, it could be interesting to see how much SG drop you get from a given amount of K!
Claude

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Right! I understand your point, DAP is safer choice in term of SG drop....

There was some H2S problems in those carboys and that they seem to be under control right now ans i'd like it to stay that way. I've read that DAP alone might increase the problem sometimes because it increases the yeast population without adding some essential nutrients (like Thiamine, as suggested by Wes).

I don't know if I'd like to experiment something on this! Experimenting a medium cider without H2S taints would be enough! On the safe side, dap + fermaid O might be the trick here...

Thank you very much for your erpertise Claude, I'll keep you on touch on the results.

Louis