Pasteurizing/UV for small commercial cider house

[Jean Levac]

Hi, First time poster!  I haven’t searched in the archives yet but I was wondering what startup do for pasteurizing/uv filter.  Not a cheap endeavor.  I’ve heard many cideries skip this and I’m a bit surprised.  We are starting up a craft cider house shortly (waiting for our permits) and we’ll be offering two products at first, all crafted of course.  One will be a sweet sparkling fun cider for the masses in cans, shocking, and a nice dry sparkling, hopefully a la Champenoise.
Thanks
Jean

[Jez Howat]

Jean,

Why are you surprised many craft producers skip pasteurisation and uv filtering? Without wishing to be rude perhaps you should get to know cider more (well, that is the thought that occurs to me).

Full juice cider *should* fall fairly clear and certainly well kept cider is racked off the yeast. Some do pasteurisation and no filtering. Others filter without pasteurisation. Mostly it's just a preference or presentation thing. I do neither and only this year may have benefited from one of my blends being filtered as it is cloudy.

As you wish to present in cans, that is a curious choice for crafted cider... However, given that you will want to extend fermentation in bottle for champenoise neither pasteurisation or filtering are necessary (and will cause you problems in fact).

Hope that helps kick things off.

Jez

[Andrew Lea]

On 23/09/2013 09:10, Jez Howat wrote:

>
> Why are you surprised many craft producers skip pasteurisation and uv
> filtering? Without wishing to be rude perhaps you should get to know
> cider more (well, that is the thought that occurs to me).

What Jez says is true for dry cider of course and for those naturally
sweet but stable ciders made by keeving or by multiple racking.

But if you sweeten a cider after fermentation, then pasteurisation or
true sterile filtration and filling is mandatory. Exploding bottles is
the likely result otherwise.

UV treatment has no effective role here. It works against pathogens (E
coli) in apple juice but will not inactivate fermenting yeast at any
normal treatment level.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Jean Levac]

Jez, Isn't what this forum is all about, to share knowledge and to learn from others?

I think it was a fair question and appreciate both yours and Andrew's answer. I asked because I've seen both methods here in Canada and Andrew has answered my question. Thank you.
I was more worried about E. coli than anything.
J

[Andrew Lea]

Are we talking fermented cider here or just apple juice? Because yeast fermentation destroys coliforms so UV treatment is not needed on (hard) cider.

"Cider" in North America has two meanings. Here in Europe it only has one.

Andrew

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[Jean Levac]

Hard cider.

[Jean Levac]

Your wealth of knowledge is amazing Andrew. Thanks

[J L]

My slant on the pasteurize UV matter is that it is not science in the U S.  It is public perception driving public policy.  Cidermakers in our state, WI, are constrained by policy, some federal, some state prohibiting using anything off the ground and pasteurized  or UV treated if sold to stores.  NY, I believe, blankets all cidermakers mandating any cider sold be treated.  I've not found an FDA distinction between cider - juice, and cider - alcohol.  I've found very little information on real or hard cider makers' treating their products.  I'm aware that some  treat incoming juice and pasteurization is also used at the end to eliminate refermentation and insure stability after bottling. 

Are there solid research projects documenting sensory differences?  Cornell did a UV vs untreated, but are there others? 

It may be true that fermentation kills coliforms in Britain, but I believe 100% of those who drank British cider in the 1700's died.  Analogous logic is the foundation of our cider policy.

James Lindemann

 

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From: Andrew Lea <y...@cider.org.uk>
To: "cider-w...@googlegroups.com" <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Pasteurizing/UV for small commercial cider house

Are we talking fermented cider here or just apple juice? Because yeast fermentation destroys coliforms so UV treatment is not needed on (hard) cider.

"Cider" in North America has two meanings. Here in Europe it only has one.

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Sep 2013, at 15:56, Jean Levac <jean...@rogers.com> wrote:

> Jez, Isn't what this forum is all about, to share knowledge and to learn from others?
>
> I think it was a fair question and appreciate both yours and Andrew's answer.  I asked because I've seen both methods here in Canada and Andrew has answered my question. Thank you.
> I was more worried about E. coli than anything.
> J
>
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[Dick Dunn]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 07:35:35PM -0700, J L wrote:
> My slant on the pasteurize UV matter is that it is not science in the U S...

That's putting it kindly!

It is a case where, unfortunately, we in the US have to fall back to using
the (elsewhere redundant) phrase "hard cider", or "fermented cider", or
perhaps even the awkward phrase "apple wine." That's a bit of help in
making the health-related distinctions clear.

As James indicated, the situation varies wildly from one state to the next.

The best case is where the grower is also the cidermaker, simply because
the commercial transfer of fruit or juice from one entity to another
invokes the worst and most pointless attention of regulators. I have to
thank our friends on the right side of the pond for the delightful term
"jobsworth". It should be much better known in the US, since we have so
many.

--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[greg l.]

I wonder why they can't look at the flourishing US wine industry and put 2 + 2 = 4 together. Wine goes straight from the vineyard to the crusher then the fermenter. Why should apples be so different? At least in the north of England the authorities can plead ignorance of wine industry knowledge.

[Dick Dunn]

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 09:19:22PM -0700, greg l. wrote:
> I wonder why they can't look at the flourishing US wine industry and put 2
> + 2 = 4 together. Wine goes straight from the vineyard to the crusher then
> the fermenter. Why should apples be so different? At least in the north of
> England the authorities can plead ignorance of wine industry knowledge.

Greg - It's the unfortunate fallout of a US apple juice producer being very
irresponsible in almost every way possible some 17 years ago. They got
fruit which included drops, apparently transported it in dirty trucks,
didn't clean it adequately before processing, and sold it out with shelf
dates that were hopelessly optimistic. Or, cut to the chase, they allowed
all the factors which would lead to a high initial bacterial load becoming
an overwhelming contamination at the consumer.

The fallout has completely changed the US "fresh" juice industry. It goes
well beyond apple juice, and it's been way-bad for cider too.

The company which committed this reckless travesty has recovered and has
been profitable since. (And they still put recklessly long expiration
dates on their juice products, IMNSHO!)

[Nick Bradstock]

Sorry to come late to this but re drinkers of British cider in the 1700s:

 

100% is the generally accepted death rate in life but at what age did they die?  And was it the cider that killed them?

 

Mind you, ‘Devonshire Colic’ was contracted from cider made in lead-lined presses and pipes.....

 

Best

Nick

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[barr...@gmail.com]

It' a bit like the American view of health risks on cheese,most of their varieties are plastic and tasteless because of homogenised and pasteurised milk,it's the craft brewing and cider makers etc that are getting the public interested actual "flavour ",surely if enough people in the US started lobbying it could force change.
Barry

[Dick Dunn]

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 05:01:10AM -0700, barr...@gmail.com wrote:
> It' a bit like the American view of health risks on cheese,most of their varieties are plastic and tasteless because of homogenised and pasteurised milk,it's the craft brewing and cider makers etc that are getting the public interested actual "flavour ",surely if enough people in the US started lobbying it could force change.

Barry - the obstacle to the sort of change you suggest--to be blunt--is
that the US is a very litigious country.

[greg l.]

So you can blame it all on the lawyers.

Greg

[Sampford Courtenay Cider]

Hello Andrew

I am interested that you say that UV will have no effective role against yeast, can you expand on that a little for me please. I've been playing around with UV treatment to extend the shelf life of BIB cider sweetened with sugar. I don't have facilities for proper trials, but passing the cider through a modified UV water system seemed to be increasing shelf life to about 3 months. The biggest difficulty has been calculating the actual UV exposure due to interference from tannin levels in the cider. I've been lurking about on e-bay trying to find a cheap UV spectrophotometer to give me a better idea of transmissions batch to batch, but it would be nice to know if I am just deluding myself about the whole project

regards

James

[Andrew Lea]

On 11/12/2013 15:34, Sampford Courtenay Cider wrote:
> Hello Andrew
>
> I am interested that you say that UV will have no effective role against
> yeast, can you expand on that a little for me please.

There is a lot of experience in the US now using UV 'pasteurisation' of
apple juice to inactivate E. coli successfully. But it has very little
effect on fermenting yeast, maybe a lag of a week or two before
fermentation kicks in. The yeast cells are not killed and keep on
growing quite happily. Data in this paper from Geneva NY / Cornell
(although the abstract does not say so) show it quite clearly
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-4549.2003.tb00498.x/abstract

Of course it will depend upon yeast load, hurdles and the intensity of
UV light that is used. But generally fermenting yeasts are not regarded
as susceptible to 'normal' treatment with UV light. I can't put my
finger on it, but I'm sure I saw some work on wine where yeast
inhibition was achieved but the flavour was compromised at the high UV
doses necessary.

I think if it were a viable technique, all the winemakers in this world
would be using it as an alternative to aseptic sterile filtration. And
they're not!

[Headelf]

Andrew
Re: Cider UV Treatment
I realize you certainly understand that UV treatment is NOT PASTEURIZATION. I have had two Dept of Ag inspectors visit my mill and liberally use the phrase. When I corrected them they still were not certain.

I had another in depth discussion with a cheese machinery distributor who was using the term UV pasteurization. He no longer wished to discuss the matter when I explained what pasteurization entails - time and temperature.

I have lost the threads but when I did in depth research several years back I came across two Japanese studies linking UV Treatment of apple cider to a certain form of cancer. They postulated it was due to the turbidity( if my failing memory is near correct).

I decided pasteurization was the vetted methodology and built my own device.

Due to various and sundry interests there are those that are attempting to blend UV treatment into the realm of Louis' treatment. Please, do not let this subtle movement overwhelm many years of viable science.

In the US at least after many years high fructose corn syrup is now officially labeled as "corn sugar". I expect 1/2 generation before the real issue is out of mind.

Regards
Tom Frey
Elfs Farm


Sent from my iPhone

[Sampford Courtenay Cider]

Hello Andrew

Thank you for your kind reply. It would seem that the authors of the 2002 report didn't use a high enough UV exposure to have any anti microbial effect. I found quite an interesting thesis study that shows the effects on storage with increases in dosage. As the author achieves the increases by successive  passes, it may also have addressed some of the issues of dark repair.

 http://www.library.umaine.edu/theses/pdf/CanitezN2002.pdf

The degree of stabilisation recorded was consistent with about a 4 log reduction in microbial loading. This seems about the same as the result seen in pineapple juice and my own trials I think http://www.ifrj.upm.edu.my/19%20(03)%202012/(31)%20IFRJ%2019%20(03)%202012%20Rosnah.pdf

This isn't enough to sterilise the cider, and it seems like you would need very high doses of UV treatment to achieve that, opening up all kinds of other issues. think if I could measure the transmittance and therefore know how much the UV was actually penetrating into the cider, it might not a bad way of stabilising bag-in-box, where a longer shelf life, rather than sterility.

Although I can probably achieve that with a reasonably tight depth filter without the UV at all! 

It seems like this experiment is doomed, unless I can find a cheap uv spectrophotometer....

thanks for your comments

James Mcilwraith

[nfcider]

In my pre own cider making business days I worked for a food company producing for major supermarkets deli pre pack hot smoked mackeral fillets and pates. This was in the early 1980's and we were experimenting in trying to extend shelf life by irradiation,there was a plant in Swindon that I remember taking sample boxes to and waited they went in one end and came out the other,very intereresting,the bug count on the fresh pate was less at 60days than when I took it up there on day1 of production,the trouble was the bosses and lab team were too scared to try it! (I was transport and distribution manager for the company) the Swindon company primarily were sterilizing hospital surgical utensils etc but were quite amenable for food companies to experiment etc.I wonder what Andrew's thoughts on this (outlandish to some!) method of sterilisation .
Barry

[Andrew Lea]

On 12/12/2013 14:29, nfcider wrote:
>
>I wonder what Andrew's thoughts on this
> (outlandish to some!) method of sterilisation
>

Barry, I am familiar with the company in Swindon that you mention.
AFAIK they are the only licensed food irradiation business in the UK.
When I was in the food analysis / authenticity business we also tested
certain products (notably herbs and dietary supplements) to determine if
they had been illegally irradiated to reduce their microbial load
(before importation into the UK).

Irradiation is very different from UV treatment because it is much more
energetic 'ionising radiation'. It is not much used in Europe and in the
UK herbs and spices are the only foods for which a license exists. It is
much more widely used in the US and the Far East. There has only been
limited work on its application to wine so far as I know, some of it
with a view to inducing faster maturation. Google <irradiation of wine>.
There is a good and up to date IFST position statement on food
irradiation here https://www.ifst.org/documents/misc/Irradiation2013.pdf

[nfcider]

Andrew,at the time I remember tasting the 60day pate ,the conclusion we came to it controlled the bugs etc but wouldn't stop aging the rancid factor of cream/butter etc used in the pate production.being in the fish trade I can recall quite a to do over a major player in importing South East Asian warm water prawns by the container load,having them rejected by health authorities in Southampton because of the high bug load,only to send them out to Holland to be irradiated and then come back to the UK to Felixstowe,the bugs might have gone but the toxins created by the bugs hadn't,I digress.
On the cider front thinking about it,if you say had a pallet of 20 litre boxes of freshly filled cider sweetened etc would this effectively sterilize it like pasteurisation?
Barry

[Andrew Lea]

On 13/12/2013 17:46, nfcider wrote:
>
> ....the bugs might

> have gone but the toxins created by the bugs hadn't,I digress.

Yes this is not the place for a full discussion of food irradiation but
I am aware of the incident you mention, and indeed persistence of
pre-existing toxins is one of its potential drawbacks.

> On the cider front thinking about it,if you say had a pallet of 20 litre
> boxes of freshly filled cider sweetened etc would this effectively
> sterilize it like pasteurisation? Barry
>

I really don't know. On the basis of a quick scan of what's been done on
wine, I suspect you might get flavour changes if you get the radiation
level high enough to zap all the yeasts and bacteria.

Anyway it's totally hypothetical. Irradiation of ciders and wines etc
is not permitted under EU and UK food law, could only be done in a
licensed facility (there is only one in the UK), and even if it were the
product would have to be clearly labelled as such. A non-starter I'm afraid.