Speed of fermentation
Andrew Lea
>>
>> we don't really have any cider apples, so make do with
>> culinary and dessert but this does seem to make for a fast fermentation,
>> (this is where Andrew tells me that has more to do with the yeast than
>> the apple variety)
No I shan't tell you that Matt, cos it ain't true!! Yeast variety may
have a slight impact but the biggest determinant is the amount of 'free
amino nitrogen' (FAN) and also vitamins like thiamine which are in the
juice. The FAN is iteslf determined partly by how the apples are grown
- modern commercial intensive orchards which are fertilised will have
far higher FAM levels than traditional low input orchards. But there is
also a definite varietal effect - for instance, amongst cider apples
Bulmers Norman is always a fast fermenter compared to many others. Most
of the varieties on the "vintage list" are slow fermenters because they
are poor at taking up nitrogen from the soil, and that's just genetic.
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
Matt Eldridge
So the fact that 100L of unsulphited, wild yeast cider, fermented in two weeks from an OG of 1055 to a SG of 1000 just means that we had quite nitrogen, nutrient rich apples?
Matt in Ely
www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk
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> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Speed of fermentation
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Andrew Lea
> Excellent explanantion, thanks Andrew.
>
> So the fact that 100L of unsulphited, wild yeast cider, fermented in two
> weeks from an OG of 1055 to a SG of 1000 just means that we had quite
> nitrogen, nutrient rich apples?
Yup. I forgot to mention before that temperature has an effect too, so
if you did it in deep winter it might have been a bit slower. But I
think you will find two weeks is fairly typical for the sort of apples
you have. Whereas I think Tim in Dorset has last year's cider still
fermenting, doesn't he ;-)
Andrew
Michael Cobb
that it was done before the weather took the temperature down. Was it
also from early season apples?
Michael Cobb
Matt Eldridge
Matt in Ely
www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk
> Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Speed of fermentation
> From: ci...@buhund.clara.net
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Claude Jolicoeur
> Yes, I think 50% of what we used are called Autumn Glory, the other 50% was Russet (40%)
fermentation:
early/summer apples ferment faster than late fall/winter apples
long storage before pressing (slowlier)
apples from young trees, faster than from old trees
apples from standard trees, slowlier than from dwarfs
fertilisation and temperature, as already mentioned
But I think 2 weeks is really FAST like a rocket. Did you add yeast
nutrients?
Claude
Matt Eldridge
No we don't add anything, just apple juice fermented and matured in oak barrels.
Matt in Ely
www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Speed of fermentation
> From: cj...@gmc.ulaval.ca
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
J Wynia
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>
I am just an amateur home brewer who makes cider for my own use.
However, I'm also someone who likes to experiment. In that pursuit,
I've done side-by-side yeast tests (split a 5 gallon batch into 1
gallon jugs and use a different yeast on each). The speed of
fermentation in those experiments due to just yeast is usually within
10-30% of each other at the most. The addition of nutrients (this is
what I typically use:
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_servomyces.html) is responsible
for another 20% difference in speed (increase with nutrient).
Flocculation and clearing can vary quite a bit more, but the ferment
From my non-cider brewing, I can say that if you give yeast their
optimal growing conditions and a proper pitch at the beginning, the
yeast can be done in as little as a few days. That's not to say that
such a fast fermentation will give you an optimal flavor profile, but
yeast will do it if given a chance. If you put fermenting cider at
80F/27C with the right yeast strain, 2 weeks might seem slow by
comparison. You'd probably have something that tasted like jet fuel,
but it'd ferment fast.
Among meadmakers, lots of people have been experimenting with
aggressive de-gassing (pretty much daily during most of fermentation)
combined with a staggered nutrient addition at more typical
fermentation temperatures. Those that have been doing this have gotten
the flavors they usually have to wait 6-12 months for in as little as
a month. Getting the toxic CO2 out of solution and providing adequate
nutrition speeds up the fermentation without destroying the delicate
flavors that good mead requires.
I've followed a similar regimen on my last couple of batches of
cider/cyser and have been pleased with the results.
--
J Wynia
Software Consultant, Writer and Geek
Minneapolis, MN
j...@wynia.org
"The glass isn't half full or half empty. It's just too big"
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one."
http://wynia.org
Tim
will be finished by the end of the month, all apples were from old orchards
with hardly any grazing so extremely low in nutrients, shed floor is always
cold as well so that will slow things down.
Tim in Dorset
Andrew
--
