Cleaning new oak barrel

[Cheshire Matt]

Hi - got myself a brand new (not had anything else in it) 30L oak
barrel to experiment and add "something" to my stuff (for
conditioning, not fermenting in) Just wondering on any advice on pre-
usage clean and keeping it "fresh".

Pooley's book suggests:
* washing with warm water
* making up 8oz of salt in 2pints of water, then adding this to a full
barrel of warm water, leave for 2 weeks,
* wash out after 2 weeks.

And to keep fresh (if being left)
* (an amount of) citric acid + campden tablets in a pint of water left
in barrel to keep the nasties at bay.

My questions are along two lines: the disinfection/sweetness issue
without "tainting"/sucking out the oak tannins prematurely; and how to
keep the wood conditioned so it doesn't dry out.
So, why salt solution? Anyone know the benefit of this, and are there
other options?
What about the oak drying out with just leaving a pint of citric/
campden in there? Isn't it better to keep the barrel filled?

And as for filling it with cider to condition, I'm guessing priming
with an amount of sugar to generate a CO2 blanket. So how much sugar
for a 30L barrel?

Cheers all, Matt

[Tim]

What did it contain?
Was it tightly bunged?
Wet or Dry?

Tim

Cheers all, Matt

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[Tim]

Just reread you message, I will be glad when I am off the medication.

Personally if totally unused I would leave it alone and just add your juice,
might be too oaky for a lot of people so if you have time soak with clean
water for at least a week to remove some of the tannins.

Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheshire Matt
Sent: 16 September 2010 12:48
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Cleaning new oak barrel

Cheers all, Matt

--

[Ray Blockley]

Matt wrote:

> What about the oak drying out with just leaving a pint of citric/
> campden in there? Isn't it better to keep the barrel filled?

The citric acid is there just to make the SO2 generated by the campden
tablet very strong, so that the SO2 released will fill the air space left.
I'm no expert at all on barrels but would have thought leaving it full of a
good SO2 solution would be better?

> And as for filling it with cider to condition, I'm guessing priming
> with an amount of sugar to generate a CO2 blanket. So how much sugar
> for a 30L barrel?

I suppose this depends on the air-space left? With a small air space, a
teaspoon or so would probably do. The problem is more about keeping the CO2
blanket I'd have guessed?

Cheers,

Ray.
http://hucknallciderco.blogspot.com/
http://torkardcider.moonfruit.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheshire Matt" <goo...@camelid.net>
To: "Cider Workshop" <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Cleaning new oak barrel

[chris harrison]

Could i ask a question on the subject of oak barrels please.

 

Ive just took delivery of 3 great oak wine barrels that have some wine still in them. They have been empty for some time so i have hydrated ie; bit by bit and now have them full of water( 2 days). Before i look to use them for cider what am i best doing?

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[olbol]

I bought a new 10L barrel this spring. I spent around 10 days changing
water, adding soda bicarbonate, washing it out again. Still, tannins
leach out big time once you add something of value. I've got strong
alcohol sitting there and after 3 months it has acquired quite wooden
taste and quite a yellow colour.

[Cheshire Matt]

Ray Blockley wrote:
>
> The citric acid is there just to make the SO2 generated by the campden
> tablet very strong, so that the SO2 released will fill the air space
> left. I'm no expert at all on barrels but would have thought leaving
> it full of a good SO2 solution would be better?

Yup - s'what I was thinking, since the keeps the wood swollen/barrel
water tight _and_ disinfects it.

>
> I suppose this depends on the air-space left? With a small air space,
> a teaspoon or so would probably do. The problem is more about keeping
> the CO2 blanket I'd have guessed?

Indeed - not certain if I'd put the cider in and draw it off in
batches/drink it. Or put it in, leave it, then take it all out once
flavour is (hopefully) imparted (but testing on regular basis, of course :)
>

[Tim]

I would have left the wine in and emptied on the day you will fill with apple juice.

 

Tim.

 

 

 

---

[Cheshire Matt]

Tim wrote:
> soak with clean
> water for at least a week to remove some of the tannins.
>
>

I think that with newer barrels, they impart their "oakiness" very
quickly. Two weeks is almost too long before it tastes like a cheap
chardonnay. I'm only conditioning, not fermenting, so time is on my
side.

My idea is that it's another possible way of conditioning
cider/perry. OK, "putting it in an oak barrel" is not some magical cure
for duff stuff, but it might add something - who knows? If it doesn't,
I still have a nice "feature" barrel :)

[chris harrison]

Ah ok, well now i got 3 barrels full of water!!..what best to do next as far as making sure they are nice and clean ready for the cider to go into/

 

Chris

[Tim]

It will most definitely add something, makes for a nice drink if a good
barrel or if an old barrel that has gone fausty it will just ruin all your
hard work.

Tim.

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheshire Matt

--

[Tim]

Leave them corked down hard until you are ready to start filling, flush with fresh water on the day.

[Dick Dunn]

The problem there, aside from it being a new barrel, is the size.
The smaller the barrel, the more surface area contact per volume of
liquid. 10 l is unusually small for anything like cider or wine.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[greg l.]

Yes, surface area/volume is very important so the smaller the barrel
the shorter the time you can leave the cider in there. For full size
barrels a barrel-cleaning attachment is a good thing, they allow you
to spray a strong spray all round inside. If they weren't cleaned
after emptying it isn't a good sign of the condition, maybe steam
cleaning would be the the best way to try and sanitise them. The
concern is that bugs like brettanomyces may have got into the wood
grain.

[Dave]

I bought a 100litre version last year. My preparation involved quick
rinse with cold water then left overnight full of cold water to check
for leaks.
If it does leak, leave the water in for another 24 hours and see if it
stops.
Then fill to the brim with cider.
I had read lots about how new barrels were too strong etc, and along
with fretting about this and also being impatient I bottled after a
month.
In hindsight I would say 2 months would still have been completely
fine. You could definitely taste the oak, but not in a bad way. If you
weren't familiar with the aroma of oak I bet you wouldn't notice it.
The cider was very nice, and it just so happens there is a glass of it
next to me as I type.
This year I bought a 50 litre version. The cider went into that a few
months back. It can stay there a bit longer yet, but it won't be long
as my supplies are running low.
I use sulphur candles to sterilise, works for me, simple easy and
relatively cheap.

[Cheshire Matt]

> I use sulphur candles to sterilise, works for me, simple easy and
> relatively cheap.
>
>

Meant to ask if anyone knows a good place that supplies these.

[Andrew Lea]

Vigo has them. http://www.vigoltd.com/chemical-sundries.php

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