deducing aroma in a cider from fresh apples

[askej...@gmail.com]

Hi all

Still a novice cidermaker, I have often wondered whether there is any way of deducing/predicting the aromatic outcome in a cider of an apple variety simply by tasting the apple?

In my experience, the aromatic profile of a fresh apple rarely expresses itself in the finished product 1:1 so to speak. A cider made from, say, Cox Orange doesnt really have that classic Cox aroma. Or am I wrong?

So my question is, I guess, if it's possible to recognise any of the aroma precursors in a ripe apple that will provide for interresting aromatics in the bottle? Or is it all just a question of trial and error, really?

Best wishes, Aske

[Andrew Lea]

It’s an interesting question Aske, but I think the answer is fundamentally no. 

The major part of the aroma in most ciders comes from the yeast metabolising the apple sugars, rather than from the apple directly. That’s why people spend a lot of time agonising over what yeast to use, fermentation temperature and nutrients, whether or not to use wild yeasts etc. Different yeast strains can give very different aroma profiles. In addition to that, the effect of malo-lactic bacteria plus the slow chemical and biochemical effects of ageing will influence the final aroma. It is also probable that minor apple components will also influence the yeast to take certain pathways rather than others, in ways that we don’t understand.

In a relatively few cases, the aroma of an apple can and does persist through to the final cider.  I’m thinking of apples like Foxwhelp or Stoke Red in the UK. I believe the characteristic Macintosh aroma in North America can also persist through from fruit to finished cider.  But generally such varietal aromas are lost during fermentation, although those that persist may be high boiling esters which are less volatile. 

There is also a whole range of non-volatile aroma precursors in the apple fruit.  Many of these are bound to glucose and so the volatiles can be liberated when the juice is fermented if the yeast contains an appropriate glucosidase enzyme. So for instance some of the 2-phenyl ethanol in cider (which has a rose-like aroma) probably comes from the breakdown of a specific glucoside as well as from yeast synthesis. One of the most interesting molecules of this type is 1,3 octanediol which is glycosidically bound and can be liberated during fermentation - it then reacts with acetaldehyde produced by yeast to give a dioxolane with a cidery aroma see http://www.cider.org.uk/aroma.html

There are other non-volatile precursors such as the phenolic acids which can be partly metabolised by lactic acid bacteria to give the spicy / farmyard aromas (ethyl phenols) which are prized in English bittersweet ciders. Some UK bittersweets such as Yarlington Mill seem to give these more readily than most others, for reasons that are not entirely clear. This was covered recently on this forum https://groups.google.com/g/cider-workshop/c/Liuwg3dppgM/m/Hq5uwbDhBAAJ?

However, despite all that, I think there is no way by sensory or chemical analysis of the apple to predict what aroma it will yield on fermentation. As you said, it is a matter of trial and error and experience really. 

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Page

www.cider.org.uk

On 11 Oct 2022, at 15:42, askej...@gmail.com <askej...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all

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[LL]

I've been puzzled about this as well. What exactly happens during fermentation that makes the apple aroma diminish? To my understanding, yeast produce esterases, that catalyze ester hydrolysis. Is it the breakdown of esters from the apple by these enzymes that makes the apple aroma go away? But yeast also produce new esters which contribute to the aroma in the resulting cider. So why do these esters stay intact if the original apple esters are hydrolyzed?

Best
Love

[Ray Magness]

Apologies if it's a bit early in the day for this question.

On a slightly different track why is it that when I drink cider I may not taste apple but when later I pee it, it produces a strong apple smell?

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/D1E820AD-DD49-4FF0-9B3E-573F6A7A4DBD%40cider.org.uk.