Dap at boltling for carbonation

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

I'm about to bottle part of my 2015 cider production.

I have 2 carboy of secon press cider that looks quite stable since at a high gravity a couple of months.

I whould like to try the dap method to bottle it. I have two questions :

1) I bought yeast nutrients from a brewing supply store in montreal (Mout international). The package just say Yeast nutrient - 250 g- use 1 tea spoon per 5L. Could it be something else that 100% pure dap? 

2) What is the amout of dap (g per litter) that I have to use to insure a certain level of carbonation (for exemple, 1, 2, or 3 vol co2)? 

3) How do I insure that the dap has been well distributed in the volume of cider i'a about to bottle to insure constant carbonation?

Thank you very much!

Louis

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 14 février 2016 13:02:34 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

1) I bought yeast nutrients from a brewing supply store in montreal (Mout international). The package just say Yeast nutrient - 250 g- use 1 tea spoon per 5L. Could it be something else that 100% pure dap? 

You'd have to ask the store for this... It may have a bit of thiamine mixed with it.

2) What is the amout of dap (g per litter) that I have to use to insure a certain level of carbonation (for exemple, 1, 2, or 3 vol co2)? 

Usually around 10 to 15 ppm - this is 0.2 to 0.3 gram for a 20 liter carboy, hence you need a precision scale with resolution to 0.01 g to measure it. If your FSU is really zero, you may go up to 15 ppm to obtain a good sparkling. If you still have a FSU of the order of 2 to 5, then you may reduce the dosage accordingly.
If you have some time, you could make some test bottles and see the carbonation you get, but this would imply you wait a couple of months before making the bulk of your bottling.
 

3) How do I insure that the dap has been well distributed in the volume of cider i'a about to bottle to insure constant carbonation?

Dilute the DAP in a bit of water or cider, and put that in a large enough plastic pail, then rack the cider on top of it - this will insure good mixture. Then bottle from this plastic pail.

Claude

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

.2 to .3 gramm of dap per carboy! you really need to be extremely precise to achieve this....

Do you recommand to do a stock solution, a bit like sulfite solution to do this with a good precision?

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 14 février 2016 18:07:00 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

.2 to .3 gramm of dap per carboy! you really need to be extremely precise to achieve this....

Do you recommand to do a stock solution, a bit like sulfite solution to do this with a good precision?

Depends on the scale/balance you have...
I have one with a resolution of 0.01 gram which is fine for this and not so expensive:

http://cynmar.com/bowl-pocket-balances/24549-BALANCE-DIGITAL-POCKET-200g001g-705oz0001oz.html

Otherwise, I don't see other way to do it than by dilution...
Claude

[Māris Plūme]

Hello everyone,

I have a yeast nutrient which contains Ammonium sulphate 61.8%, Di-ammonium phosphate 38%, Thiamine 0.2%. It says 30g/hl is max permitted dosage. And cider 1050 litres at SG 1.012 with FSU 3 ready to bottle. I have problems to figure out the needed amount if desired carbonation level in bottle is about 3 bars. Can someone help me out with calculation? Claude? Please leave the math equation as well so that next time I can calculate myself.

Hugh thanks!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le vendredi 13 octobre 2017 04:30:33 UTC-4, Māris Plūme a écrit :

I have a yeast nutrient which contains Ammonium sulphate 61.8%, Di-ammonium phosphate 38%, Thiamine 0.2%. It says 30g/hl is max permitted dosage. And cider 1050 litres at SG 1.012 with FSU 3 ready to bottle. I have problems to figure out the needed amount if desired carbonation level in bottle is about 3 bars. Can someone help me out with calculation? Claude? Please leave the math equation as well so that next time I can calculate myself.

Hello Maris, I gather this is one of your last years' keeved batches.
As of the nutrients, you have to work with the amount of nitrogen in them. DAP (di-ammonium phospahte) will release 21% of its mass as assimilable N. Other similar compounds are ammonium phosphate which releases 28% of its mass as N, and ammonium sulfate which also releases 21% as N. So you need a little less ammonium phosphate than DAP as it releases a third more N than DAP. I think you can neglect the effect of thiamine.

Now, if you are at FSU 3 (by the way, is this corrected for 10C?) and you want 3 bars, I would probably add about 5 to 6 ppm of DAP. From this you'll have to work out how much of your nutrient you need - it will probably turn out between 4 and 5 ppm...

Claude

[Patrick Mann]

Pardon my ignorance ... what is FSU?

[Matthew Moser Miller]

Fermentation Speed Unit- search the thread archive. And more generally, searching the archives for a term definition you're not familiar with can usually get you the answer (and with less collective work) than just asking straight away and waiting for a reply.

Matt Moser Miller

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Patrick Mann <mannp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pardon my ignorance ... what is FSU?

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-workshop+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to cider-workshop@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Māris Plūme]

Thanks Claude for your reply. Yes, this is my racked cider from frozen and then thawed apples from last year. I didn't do keeving because pectin level seemed to be too low. 

Pardon me, does that mean approximately 2 g/hl of my nutrient mix?
I'm not used to ppm value... G or mg on liter i understand better... Ppm = mg on litter, is it?

Best regards,

Māris

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le jeudi 2 novembre 2017 14:17:31 UTC-4, Māris Plūme a écrit :

Thanks Claude for your reply. Yes, this is my racked cider from frozen and then thawed apples from last year. I didn't do keeving because pectin level seemed to be too low. 

Pardon me, does that mean approximately 2 g/hl of my nutrient mix?
I'm not used to ppm value... G or mg on liter i understand better... Ppm = mg on litter, is it?

Māris,
You will find the equivalences in the appendix of my book...
So, yes, 1 ppm is 1 mg/L, and 10 ppm is 1 g/hL

Hence 5 ppm DAP would be 0,5 g/hL
Claude