pressurizing IBCs

[Nat West]

Does anyone have a positive or negative experience with pressurizing IBCs to ~10psi? I'm trying to come up with a cheap brite tank to carbonate before bottling, and then possibly bottle from it via siphon/gravity. From what I read, They are rated to >14psi and sometimes more.

Thank you,

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

[nick....@gmail.com]

Hi Nat,

I can't answer your question, but would like to know the answer too.
I'm fermenting in IBCs and would like to carbonate ar least some of
the Cider, what equipment are you going to use to do it and what
method? Any ideas would be welcomed by me as originally I was looking
at doing it in a 30l pressure vessel so it would
take quite a while to carbonate 1000l that way.

I don't even know what the usual carbonation pressures are so anything
about how people usually do it on a small scale would be good to hear.

Nick

[Nat West]

Hi Nick - 

My experience with "artificial" carbonation (as opposed to bottle-primed with sugar) is limited to kegs and dispensing via CO2. I put still-cider kegs onto CO2, then set the pressure regulator at just under 10psi. Then dispense. After a week or more, there is a gentle hint of effervescence in the dispensed cider, which is very nice. I wouldn't call it "carbonated" and most people don't notice the CO2 unless we're drinking a true still (usually via bottle) cider side-by-side with it. Then you notice that the still cider is truly still and the keg-dispensed cider has some more pleasant-ness to it (that's an ambiguous word for sure). The estimable Mr Andrew Lea on this list has said that CO2 at low-levels acts as an ingredient in its own right, affecting the flavor, and I think for the better in some cases.

At any regard, my theory is to blend into an IBC (from "blue oak" HDPE barrels), fit a corny-keg or similar fitting into the top of the IBC, possibly in place of the pressure release valve at the top in the lid, set the regulator to 10-15 psi and wait a couple weeks. I can't chill the cider (don't have a cooler), which would increase the uptake of CO2, so it's just a waiting game. But a couple weeks should do nicely. Obviously I will do some kind of pressure testing of the IBC at regular intervals to avoid an explosion in case, say, the regulator failed, or the cider re-fermented heavily.

At bottling time, onto the 2" ball valve at the bottom of the IBC, I'll fit a counter-pressure bottle filler or a Blichmann beer gun or possibly just a float-type filler and use the CO2 (along with gravity) to push cider into bottles. The CO2 seems to remain in solution pretty well just dispensing via a tap. That is, the bottles have a nice pop to them when opened after being filled via a keg without any counter press equipment.

You'll have to determine how much pressure you want to put into your cider depending on how much sparkle you want. My concern with this plan is having IBCs hold 10 psi, up to 15 psi in the case of a screw-up somewhere in there.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en.

[John Mott]

Hi Nat,

I do have some experience.

A week ago, I very nearly posted the following tongue-in-cheek offer:
"Anyone wishing to increase the capacity of an IBC by about 15-20%,
please contact me for instructions."

A fermentation got ahead of me, before I fitted the lid with an
airlock. When I walked in on it, my poor IBC looked like a cartoon. It
was bulging in all directions. When I finally managed to wrench the
lid loose, it gushed gas for over a minute.

I think 10psi should be quite doable, but you will run the risk of
permanent deformation. My IBC did not return to its original shape and
the struts on the aluminum tote are bent.

To be on the safe side, you may want to test your IBC with gas, before
you put any cider at risk

Looking on the positive side, I figure I now have some extra head
space in my fermenter and when I rack off to a regular IBC, I can fill
it to the brim.

I have since discovered that pressure release valves are available for
IBCs:
http://www.deltacontainers.com/index.asp?sessionx=J0qlJpqiNwB6IHqmNwg6IA

/John Mott
Beaver Valley Cider Co
Kimberley, ON

[CarlLeClair]

Nat Writes:

> At bottling time, onto the 2" ball valve at the bottom of the IBC, I'll fit
> a counter-pressure bottle filler or a Blichmann beer gun or possibly just a
> float-type filler and use the CO2 (along with gravity) to push cider into
> bottles. The CO2 seems to remain in solution pretty well just dispensing
> via a tap. That is, the bottles have a nice pop to them when opened after
> being filled via a keg without any counter press equipment.

I have no experience with carbonating yet have read much on the
subject
and this being my first year with the blue oak I will also be
interested to
hear of your success with the process. As for the Blichmann beer gun
dispenser I used last season and if you have a large volume to bottle
you
will need quite a bit of time as it is rather slow.

> You'll have to determine how much pressure you want to put into your cider
> depending on how much sparkle you want. My concern with this plan is having
> IBCs hold 10 psi, up to 15 psi in the case of a screw-up somewhere in there.

I would be curious as to the pressure these will take as my side walls
are quite thick
yet my clamp top looks like the weak link as is the drilled air lock
hole. Look forward
to how you make out.

Regards,

Carl

[Jez Howat]

Its a good way to sort the problem of the two air traps at the top of an
IBC! I had a faulty pressure valve last year and now have a domed IBC - it
even bent the metal holding bars!

I agree that its doable - IBC's generally take a fair pounding. However, I
am not sure I would risk 1000+ litres on the experiment if I am honest. The
stainless tanks however should do it... but you are talking about a whole
different price range.

If you do have a go, please let us know the results.

All the best

Jez