cider vinegar/aerometer

[Steve Hall]

can anybody help please, we are trying to improve our vinegar making hopefully to achieve a saleable product (very small scale) how do we measure total acidity to be sure we are in the "legal" band?apparently a aerometer is essential hence brought one (ouch) unfortunately its from Germany with no instructions! looks like a long hydrometer calibrated top to bulb 0-70,? ANY help would be appreciated.steve

[vince wakefield]

As far as I know all you need is a wine acid test kit, just dilute your vinegar by a factor of 10 so you don’t use too much of the titration fluid and then multiply your result by 10 to get total acid

 

This has been covered a number of times in the group so if you do a search in the group you should find a number of discussions about it.

 

Do you have your haccp in place for vinegar production? Should be needed if you are going to sell any, I am struggling to get any info as to what should be included so anything you can pass on would be appreciated.

 

Vince

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[Steve Hall]

thanks vince,no hassup yet im afraid, working on building alteration before opening that can of worms

[joe O'Rourke]

Hi Steve,

 

You need to titrate a sample of your vinegar. i.e. neutralise it with a known volume and so infer the acidity which was required to be neutralised.

By selecting a particular sample size (6ml) and using a I molar solution of sodium hydroxide to neutralise you can reduce the maths.

 

Take a 6ml sample of your vinegar, put it in a beaker and add some drops (two or three will do) of phenolphthalein. This is the indicator which will change colour when you have neutralised the acid present in the sample. Add a little distilled water to capture any sample residue on the side wall of the beaker. Add sodium hydroxide from a graduated pipette  and note the amount added in millilitres ,when the sample turns pink and stays pink even whilst you agitate it. Note the quantity of sodium hydroxide added at that point in ml, It’s important that your sodium hydroxide solution is 1 molar.

The volume of Sodium Hydroxide added in ml is equal to the total acidity % of the sample.

 

I’m not a chemist and it is true that good lab technique will bring repeatable and accurate results, even so by this method you can be fairly accurate quite quickly.

You tube has some videos of the technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZVAo0IEcY

 

Joe O’Rourke

m: + 44(0) 7816 826 604

e: orour...@btconnect.com

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hall
Sent: 03 June 2015 16:50
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Cider Workshop] cider vinegar/aerometer

 

can anybody help please, we are trying to improve our vinegar making hopefully to achieve a saleable product (very small scale) how do we measure total acidity to be sure we are in the "legal" band?apparently a aerometer is essential hence brought one (ouch) unfortunately its from Germany with no instructions! looks like a long hydrometer calibrated top to bulb 0-70,? ANY help would be appreciated.steve

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[Andrew Lea]

A similar procedure is also given on my website see here http://www.cider.org.uk/acid_titration.html

There is a specific paragraph on vinegar. 

An aerometer is simply a hydrometer and AFAIK is of no use for measuring acetic acid in finished vinegar by itself. 

Andrew

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal

www.cider.org.uk

[Steve Hall]

hello joe,thank you for the help when BT sort our connection out this week I will watch the you-tube! I must admit this aerometer sounds an easy option if I can ever find out how to use it! just a thought but if titration measures acidity presumably a very acid apple like bramley could be part way there to the legal acidity? once again thanks for your trouble

regards steve

[Steve Hall]

hello Andrew thanks for your help it must be my age but what is AFAIK ? can acidity be measured with the aerometer if readings are taken before the culture is added if so this may remove the uncertantity of chemicals ageing

thanks steve

[Andrew Lea]

Steve,

I wonder where you got this idea of using an aerometer / hydrometer to measure acetic acid in vinegar from? I think you have been misinformed. 

The malic acid from the apples themselves is usually metabolised by acetobacter during vinegar making so it doesn't contribute to the final acidity which is due to acetic acid. 

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal

www.cider.org.uk

[Andrew Lea]

AFAIK is a standard acronym. It means "As Far As I Know". 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal

www.cider.org.uk

[Steve Hall]

thanks again Andrew never came acrossAFAIK before ,you learn something everyday! just a quick follow on but can you still see the colour change with the titration test with say a damson wine which is very dark already? ( not cider related I know but worth asking!)

regards steve

[Andrew Lea]

No you can't. The best way is to use a pH meter instead of indicator, and titrate to pH 8.2 as the end point, as mentioned in my script. 

Andrew

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal

www.cider.org.uk

[Steve Hall]

thanks again I will study your script hopefully if there are any more questions they will be better asked when B.T sort this connection out

I hope im not the only one who is gratefull  for you making your knowledge avalible it is much appreciated maybe one day I can buy you a pint or two!

regards steve