Failed keeve questions and observations

[isaacba...@gmail.com]

Hi all, wondering if someone could answer some questions I had from a failed keeve.

I pressed my apples - most of them from frozen - back in December. Before this point, I'd picked them through October and November and let them mature. Some of them I froze whole, and others I milled to a pulp and then froze. This was done to stop them from spoiling, as I didn't have time to press them when they were ready. Some, however, were great keepers, and I managed to press them fresh. 

When pressing came, I thawed the apples/pulp first and then did the usual process I've had success with previously - milling the whole apples and letting all the pulp mascerate for about 4 hours. I got approximately 32-34L of juice at a PH of 3.7 and SG of 1060. I noticed the juice particularly from the frozen apples seemed thinner in consistency and had less haze. When I've pressed apples from fresh for keeving, the juice has been thicker. 

I added 0.5ml of PME to the entire batch immediately after pressing. 24 hours later I added 12 grams calcium chloride. I've noticed in previous batches that at this point the gel forms/juice thickens almost immediately, however this did not happen with this batch. 

The temperatures were very low at pressing and for subsequent days after, hovering around 5C give or take. After what seemed like no activity for nearly two weeks, I decided to increase the temperature a little. I did this because I was also worried that the batch would spoil before any CO2 layer formed from yeast activity. I got a healthy 'chapeau blanc' on the surface, so I turned off the temperature again. I saw what seemed to be some calcium deposits on the surface of the must too, and the juice still seemed not to have thickened/jellified. 

At this point, I decided to rack some of the juice into a clear carboy so I had better visuals, and it seemed like the keeve had totally failed. The juice was still cloudy and hadn't become thicker whatsoever. I added a bit of PME again and also some wild yeast starter culture I had. Now again, I have a healthy chapeau blanc on the surface and the batch is sitting at approximately 9C.

My question is what caused this keeve to fail? And also:

- Did the frozen apples/pulp affect the success rate? 
- Could there be something to do with the viability of the PME/Calcium chloride? I doubt it's this as I used the PME in a previous batch about a month prior, and that keeved successfully 
- Did the temperature affect it? i.e. Maybe too cold initially and then it swung quickly to too warm, as indicated by the chapeau blanc? 

- Was the dosage of the PME and Calcium Chloride correct? Should this be different at all depending on frozen apples/pulp?

- Does freezing affect the viability/availibilty of the pectin in the apples? Does it affect keeving in any way? Is there any way to overcome this?

Lastly, is there a chance of still keeving this batch? Maybe by racking again and moving it somewhere colder to slow yeast activity, and then adjusting/correcting calcium cholride addition? Or is it best to just leave it now and ferment as normal? 

Thanks all. 

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le jeudi 22 janvier 2026 à 09:10:02 UTC-5, isaacba...@gmail.com a écrit :

- Did the frozen apples/pulp affect the success rate? 

From my experience of failed keeves with juice extracted from frozen-thawed apples, I think the freezing affects the capacity of the juice to keeve. Something must happen to the pectin during the freeze-thaw cycle. A clear demonstration of it is that the juice flowing from frozen-thawed apples is always perfectly clear (which is not the case with normal pressing). 

In summary, I never had a successful keeve with juice extracted from frozen-thawed apples, while my success rate in keeving with normally pressed juice is nearly 100%... You may draw your own conclusion!