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Chris you might also be interested in the single variety trials the were conducted at the WSU Mt. Vernon station a number of years ago. I do not know how well the trial methodology or results were documented but If interested you might contact Bri Ewing or check their cider website to see if there is anything.
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Hi All, i will keep U all posted as this progresses. The variables in this have definitely become a matrix of 3-dimensional cause and effect for sure. As far as Dick's info, on sweating, I must clarify, As the apples became close to becoming "Cider Ripe" i placed them in the chiller to slow down any further changes in the apples. That is how i got the early and ones that dont sweat well last so late and allow to be pressed with the very late cultivars. In retrospect I should have probably started fermentation of those when early. Miguel i think i am going to take small samples of all the lees and blend and re inoculate all the carboys with the blended shared lees to help distribute any malolactic bacteria and other bacteria to help grow the same stuff in all carboys. Eric, yes i think that it will be likely that next season different yeasts or compounds of the same apples if the experiment is repeated, could have different flavors, but i guess several iterations of the experiment would be even more substantive. Richard, thanks I will also revisit the WSU cider reports, that is a good idea. They did do some of these trials also and have some data also. It will be interesting to bounce my trial against theirs. Oh Yes Josh…you just scared the crap outa me! All the note taking J
Thanks to ya all, I will post some photos here, but also posting on instagram.
Thanks again
Chris Rylands
Renaissance Orchards
Ferndale WA
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But the image of Bedan shown in that email does trouble me. Boré and Fleckinger (Pommiers å Cidre) illustrate Bedan p99 as per below
Some talk about "Hard" and "Soft" tannins and I know there's a mouthfeel difference, but I may have them backward in my head. Can you or someone help straighten me out with what is considered a hard tannin and what is considered soft?
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A good time to try this is during cider days in Western Massachusetts typically the first weekend of November.
Sadly due to Covid this event has not been its normal event. Hopefully Cider Days will return to full schedule this year. The hardest part is finding a good space. Several local cider makers might be game for hosting such a tasting. I would hop over a couple of big lakes to participate in that.
Mike in Michigan
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: erik walther
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 12:48 PM
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider Flavor Survey
I would be into this........
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On 5 Apr 2022, at 19:33, CiderSupply.com <cryl...@comcast.net> wrote:
There may be some molecular difference that exists, but for me based on the hundreds of hard cider apples we grow, the only difference i personally have found is the amount of residual tannins get assigned a name. "Hard" tannins for ciders with lots of tannins and little or no dilution with other apples, and less tannins equate to "Soft" tannins for lower amounts of residual tannins in the cider.Chris
On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 9:11:26 AM UTC-7 Andrew Lea wrote:
Some talk about "Hard" and "Soft" tannins and I know there's a mouthfeel difference, but I may have them backward in my head. Can you or someone help straighten me out with what is considered a hard tannin and what is considered soft?
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I think that one of the complications is that in the US and UK apples have two categories as Bittersweet and Bittersharp, but in France (Hi Claude J.? :-)) they have a category listed as Astringent (not used in the UK and US).
In our laboratory based sensory research programme we preferred to use the more defined terms “bitterness” and “astringency”, which chimed more with what other researchers in sensory analysis were also doing. By using the apples Vilberie and Tremletts Bitter to represent the extremes of “soft” and “hard” tannin we demonstrated that these terms were hedonically equivalent to “astringency” and “bitterness”, and moreover that in cider apples they were determined by the molecular size of the relevant phenolics (catechins and procyanidins). This is covered in the detail (though not the abstract) of this paper https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.2740290512
Later our work was expanded in the wine field by Ann Noble at UC Davis and in the cider field by Ronan Symoneaux in France.
On 6 Nov 2022, at 13:57, AW <adamjw...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think I have noticed some inconsistent language between the wine and cider literature regarding "hard" and "soft" tannin.