roundup near cider apple trees

[beacons cider]

I was given access to an orchard to pick apples yesterday, but told that the 20 year old trees had been sprayed once around
the base with Roundup to keep down the grass back in April. The bark on the trees near the base was missing in places. I picked the apples yesterday and they are fine. Not being a horticulturist, I'm not clear about whether the spray back then would have any effect on the apples now.
Any opinions, expert or otherwise, gratefully received.
Thanks

[Cornelius Traas]

I have occasionally seen damage to the foliage of apple trees caused by accidental exposure to glyphosate. It looks like severe mildew, without the powdery coating, for want of a better description. Usually only the area close to that which got sprayed is badly affected. You would imagine that apples carried on affected brances would have some level of glyphosate residue. There is significant evidence of glyphosate entry through the trunk of trees (especially younger trees, or with advanced formulations of the chemical where better penetrants are used), and this can cause cankering of trees, effect general health and nutritional status of the plants, and be otherwise unhelpful to growers.

 

Con Traas

 

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From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of beacons cider
Sent: 25 October 2014 13:16
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Cider Workshop] roundup near cider apple trees

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[Andrew Lea]

On 25/10/2014 14:21, Cornelius Traas wrote:
> I have occasionally seen damage to the foliage of apple trees caused by
> accidental exposure to glyphosate. It looks like severe mildew, without
> the powdery coating, for want of a better description.

Two quite interesting articles here from US orcharding academics /
extension advisers.

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/glyphosate_damage_in_apple_and_cherry_orchards

This one has pictures demonstrating Con's observation.

http://www.nyshs.org/pdf/-NYFQ%202013.CMC/Send%20CMC%20NYFQ%20Winter%202013/Pages%2023-28%20from%20NYFQ%20Winter%2012-12-2013.cmc.pdf

The last one seems to demonstrate some inconsistent effects on fruit
itself from simulated spray drift. It would have been interesting to
see some data on glyphosate residues or its metabolites in the fruit.
The mammalian toxicity of glyphosate is of a low order so that might be
some reassurance. I don't remember anyone querying the safety of fruit
from glyphosate treated orchards, despite the well known tree damage
reports. And it is fairly widely used.

Andrew

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near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[skidbro...@tiscali.co.uk]

Hello a.jenkins

With regard to risk for the apples: glyphosate (roundup) is one of the safest agri-chemicals around and I am sure that the fruit will be unaffected. We spray a one metre zone with glyphosate around all trees for the first two or three years and have found (as shown by woodland trust and forestry commission) that the growth is up to twice as strong as without spraying. I have killed one or two hazels but am always more careful with the apples!

Best wishes

Guy 

[beacons cider]

Thanks for your replies. It has put my mind at ease. The trees look perfectly healthy and so does the fruit. The trees were sprayed sufficiently early back in April so it looks as if I can give the fruit the all clear and put them through the press.

[WV Mountaineer Jack]

Roundup is sprayed on the weeds at the base of the trees, not on the apples or the leaves of the tree, not sure why you are worried about this? We also use it around trees to reduce the weed competition. WVMJ

[Cornelius Traas]

With apologies for straying a bit off-topic:

 

WVMJ said:

"Roundup is sprayed on the weeds at the base of the trees, not on the apples or the leaves of the tree, not sure why you are worried about this? We also use it around trees to reduce the weed competition."

 

This is fair comment as long as the glyphosate is sprayed as indicated, and does not contact the tree, either through drift or by spraying up to the trunk. Unfortunately, I and most other growers use a nozzle that means that the spray will hit the trunk up to perhaps 8-10" (25cm) above the ground, and this means that glyphosate will enter the trees, at least to some extent.

 

Guy said:

"With regard to risk for the apples: glyphosate (roundup) is one of the safest agri-chemicals around and I am sure that the fruit will be unaffected. We spray a one metre zone with glyphosate around all trees for the first two or three years and have found (as shown by woodland trust and forestry commission) that the growth is up to twice as strong as without spraying."

 

Again to say it is safe is fair comment if we are talking about mammalian toxicity. However, if we are talking toxicity to plants, then it is a different matter, as glyphosate is clearly meant to be plant toxic. Indeed, having spoken to one of the Netherlands largest tree nursery producers recently (where they also have an organic tree production division), he told me that the trees in the organic nursery out-grow the conventional ones, specifically because they are not hampered by the low-level damage caused by herbicides including glyphosate. In fact glyphosate labels carry a specific warning about not spraying in a way which will lead to contact with young trees because it is high-risk. It all depends on what you compare with. Obviously young apple trees (or forestry trees) competing with weeds will not do as well as when the weeds are controlled with glyphosate. But the evidence suggests that if weeds are properly controlled in another way (which may not be as easy, cheap or practical), that the trees will do even better than in the situation where glyphosate is used.

 

By the way, many thanks to Andrew for those links, which helped refresh my memory.

Cornelius Traas

The Apple Farm,
Moorstown,
Cahir,
Co. Tipperary.

 

[Tim]

No need for Round up anywhere in the World let alone an orchard.

 

Tim

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[Alex Slater]

I've not got any scientific based advice here, but in my orchard I don't spray any glyphosate around my trees anymore. Mainly due to me killing four of my young tress two years ago through what I believe was trunk over-spary.

In light of Andrew's comments, I should note note though that I was also using an organosilicone based "wetting agent" ( CAS# 134180-76-0 for anyone feeling keen) specifically designed to increase herbicide penetration into woody stems.. as I had some left over gorse spray so thought I'd reuse it...  That is probably an importantly factor in my case!

If I was to ever be brave enough spray again, I'd just use plain glyphosate (no wetting agent) and make a temporary trunk shield to try and reduce over spray.

[Dougal]

Trunk sleeves on young trees are important for me to deter rabbits.  They also help protect against weed spray.

[Rich Anderson]

The advise to not spray young tree trunks with glyphosate is quite common. You might check with a orchard supply store, I was able to purchase in expensive plastic shields to encase my young trees. There is some literature suggesting not to spray around trees using a sticker, some not even to use glyphosate.  I have successfully used it for 15 years with no problems to my knowledge. If you look at the science, glyphosate is fairly gentle on the environment, a short half life and binds in the soil.  

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Slater

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:45 PM
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

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[Tim]

http://tinyurl.com/kvff7jl

 

Read the article and then tell me it is safe.

 

Tim in Dorset

[Dick Dunn]

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 07:02:10AM -0000, Tim wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/kvff7jl
>
> Read the article and then tell me it is safe.

Whether that research is sound or not, it's largely irrelevant to the
discussion at hand--which involves -not- getting glyphosate on the apple
trees themselves, nor letting the roots take it up before it breaks down.
The article cited above is related to spraying glyphosate directly on food
crops.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Dave]

The original question was if glyphosate sprayed in April would effect the fruit at harvest, well no it wouldn't.

There most certainly is a place for glyphosate in the orchard but do keep it off young trees. Older trees can stand their trunk being splashed and even an accidental amount on a leaf will normally only affect that leaf.

From memory I think only one application per year is allowed now, but read the label to be sure on that.

It is used extensively on food crops, most especially on wheat and barley a week or so before harvest. No doubt that straw that Tim so proudly presses his apples through has been sprayed just before it was cut. I am sure there is a lot more risk from doing that than spraying on the ground before the flowers are even open.

[Tim]

I doubt very much the barley straw has been sprayed, comes from an organic farm, as I have stated before there is no place in the orchard or anywhere in agriculture for poisons.

 

Tim in Dorset

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[WV Mountaineer Jack]

We use the Red Weeder wick applicator with roundup around sensitive young trees, not in the nursery, but with newly set out trees before they get tough enough for spraying around. You just take your time, keep it low and dont let it drip on anything you want to keep.

Redweeder.com (no affiliation)

WVMJ

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