Cider offered for sale in aluminum cans?
Carl LeClair
“Fermented Beverage Production” 2nd.ed. After reading
The cider section for the 3rd time I am now prepared to
Take notes upon the fourth reading!
Andrew,
I was curious as to any recorded failures of aluminum cans
Containing cider for sale? Whether it was caused from any
Content of free SO2 above the 25-30ppm levels or just poor
Lacquer applications to the interior surfaces? Seems to me
Using aluminum cans for cider could be of potential health
concerns to those who purchase it?
Regards,
Carl
Andrew Lea
> My summertime reading has brought me to the book
> The cider section for the 3rd time I am now prepared to
> Take notes upon the fourth reading!
>
> Andrew,
> I was curious as to any recorded failures of aluminum cans
> Containing cider for sale? Whether it was caused from any
> Content of free SO2 above the 25-30ppm levels or just poor
> Lacquer applications to the interior surfaces? Seems to me
> Using aluminum cans for cider could be of potential health
> concerns to those who purchase it?
Just to make it clear to others, the passage reads "For cans, the total
level of SO2 compatible with the lacquer is often as little as 25 ppm.
Otherwise the base metal may be attacked if the lacquer fails, with the
resultant formation of hydrogen sulphide in the pack. Ciders destined
for canning are often specially fermented in the absence of sulphite
throughout".
This was pretty much received wisdom in the industry when it was
originally written in the mid 90's, and had been flagged up from the
80's. I have recently revised the text which I then sent out for
'peer-review' and none of my industry colleagues saw fit to change it.
So I presume it still stands. I was always told it was the lacquer
itself that failed, but of course that could have been at the site of
pinholes. I don't have any data myself on recorded can failures, and it
may be an issue which has gone away with improvements in can lacquers
over the years.
The can metal is not specified, but I am pretty sure that being the UK
it was steel not aluminium anyway. I don't think Al would catalyse the
SO2 - H2S reduction in the same way that Fe does. Remember that only a
very small amount of H2S (single parts per billion) is enough to be
objectionable in flavour terms.
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
Dick Dunn
> > ...Seems to me
> > using aluminum cans for cider could be of potential health
> > concerns to those who purchase it?
Why would that be? In particular, why would aluminum be more of a health
concern with cider than with various acidic soft drinks so packaged.
FWIW, Strongbow is packaged in aluminum cans, over here anyway. It
carries a standard "contains sulfites" warning.
Andrew replied in part re past writing and chemistry:
> The can metal is not specified, but I am pretty sure that being the UK
> it was steel not aluminium anyway. I don't think Al would catalyse the
> SO2 - H2S reduction in the same way that Fe does. Remember that only a
> very small amount of H2S (single parts per billion) is enough to be
> objectionable in flavour terms.
Given the perception threshold, would it suffice to check this by pouring
a glass of a normally sulfited cider, dropping in a piece of bare
aluminium, and sniffing for H2S? (Yes, I realize that "bare" Al actually
has a surface layer of Al2O3.)
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
Carl LeClair
> Why would that be? In particular, why would aluminum be more of a health
> concern with cider than with various acidic soft drinks so packaged.
making books
if memory serves me it was advised to store product in HDPE, Stainless
Steel, or
glass / wood vessels. My local grocer has only limited shelf space for
cider and all
Including Strongbow is always in glass. Only after reading Andrew's
comments in the
book Fermented Beverage Products had I realized that the cans were
coated inside.
> FWIW, Strongbow is packaged in aluminum cans, over here anyway. It
> carries a standard "contains sulfites" warning.
sulfites, just curious
if the cans themselves or the coating may have broken down into the
cider causing off
flavors or contamination from the lacquer / aluminum if a poor
application of lacquer coating
may have been applied?
Regards,
Carl
P.S. Thanks for the responses.
Andrew Lea
>
> Given the perception threshold, would it suffice to check this by pouring
> a glass of a normally sulfited cider, dropping in a piece of bare
> aluminium, and sniffing for H2S? (Yes, I realize that "bare" Al actually
> has a surface layer of Al2O3.)
I once did something similar with areas cut from steel cans (especially
the seams) where there was suspicion they had led to a sulphidic taint.
It took a few days / weeks to manifest. So I suggest leaving it some
time it and should be done in a sealed container to mimic the air-free
environment of a can.
I have a dim recollection of someone doing some in-house work along
these lines when Al cans were being introduced and showing that the
treated cider generated 'cardboard' type aldehydes like nonenal .... but
I may be completely mistaken ;-)
Dick Dunn
> Dick Dunn:
...
> > FWIW, Strongbow is packaged in aluminum cans, over here anyway. It
> > carries a standard "contains sulfites" warning.
>
> I did not mean to imply danger from drinking product that contains
Sorry, I didn't explain my comment. I meant to refer to Andrew's comment
about cider for cans being made w/o sulphite, and to point out that it
would appear Strongbow does have sulphites even if canned. (I think even
aluminum cans are coated inside, but the starting point was that flaws
in the coating could result in direct contact with metal.)
Nick Bradstock
were a real problem right from the start (late 1960s) owing primarily to the
real risk of blemishes in the lacquer. The cans were 'deep-drawn' and then
printed and lacquered. The initial problem was that cans would perforate
through acid attack accelerated by the presence of SO2 and within days of
filling. Whole pallet-loads of packaged cider in cans would be lost through
being soaked in leaking cider coming from 1 or 2 perforated cans.
There was great pressure in the UK Take Home cider market to provide a
single relatively small non-returnable unit of purchase (33cl or 44cl - now
50cl) can to match beer and to get away from 2 pint (113cl) returnable glass
cider flagons.
The production of H2S was a later concern I think - or perhaps people were
more forgiving of 'farmyard' odours (as many people, and not just in the UK,
call them) in those days.
Lack of control of dissolved oxygen (never considered to be a problem in
cider before) was also though to make the problem worse.
At Taunton Cider (UK), a maximum limit of 10ppm total SO2 was set - a real
pain in the **** to the cider maker and canned cider was often to be avoided
particularly through the presence of 'mouse' (not rats) in the low-SO2 base
blend. Fortunately (?) it seemed that not enough of the UK population could
detect mouse and so cans thrived....
Aluminium cans were adopted as soon as they became available since they were
more resistant - and by then the quality of lacquer and the processing and
handling of the cider had made great strides.
Beer never suffered to anything like the same extent (probably owing to:
higher pH, lower total acidity, greater control of dissolved oxygen, and
negligible SO2) - and I believe the first beer cans appeared in the UK in
the mid-1930s.
All this may go some way to explaining why, at least until recently, UK Take
Home beer is predominantly in cans with only some non-returnable glass and
no PET at all, and cider still retains big (PET) bottles as well as cans and
non-returnable glass...
Nick
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Cider Workshop" group.
To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en.