For those that grow Kingston Black - Does rootstock help with short stems?

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Gloria Bell

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Jun 4, 2024, 3:11:09 AMJun 4
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I have a number of Kingston Black trees, mostly on dwarfing stock that are producing and my semi dwarfd on m111 and b118 have not shared fruit yet.  On M9, b9 and m26 the apples have the shortest stems and actually pop themselves off before they are ripe EVEN when I thin them to one apple per whirl.  If I don't thin I won't get any semi ripe fruit at all.
Rootstock can influence some traits in the apples and wondering if anyone has found any magical combo that creates longer stems and I can properly crop and ripen fruit.  
Trees that are cropping are about 6-7 years old.
I may try top working to some native craps with long stems to see if there's any change.

Thanks in advance.

Nick MacLean

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Jun 4, 2024, 3:48:55 AMJun 4
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Interesting! I’ve got a few KB on G890 going on their 3rd summer in ground. No fruit yet, but the internode distance seems a bit tighter than some other apples. So far, it seems beneficial in my area with our intense dry and hot summers (Columbia river gorge). 

Nick 
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Gloria Bell

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Jun 4, 2024, 10:34:46 AMJun 4
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Thanks Nick.
Ya they do that too.  I learned to never summer prune KB as they biforcate in 3 or three then send fruit at that junction with tight angles and the following year the fruit it all piles up in one area.  Gets crowded with fruit and leaves which makes things worse and bugs love it too.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 at 12:48:55 AM UTC-7 Nick MacLean wrote:
Interesting! I’ve got a few KB on G890 going on their 3rd summer in ground. No fruit yet, but the internode distance seems a bit tighter than some other apples. So far, it seems beneficial in my area with our intense dry and hot summers (Columbia river gorge). 

Nick 


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
I have a number of Kingston Black trees, mostly on dwarfing stock that are producing and my semi dwarfd on m111 and b118 have not shared fruit yet.  On M9, b9 and m26 the apples have the shortest stems and actually pop themselves off before they are ripe EVEN when I thin them to one apple per whirl.  If I don't thin I won't get any semi ripe fruit at all.
Rootstock can influence some traits in the apples and wondering if anyone has found any magical combo that creates longer stems and I can properly crop and ripen fruit.  
Trees that are cropping are about 6-7 years old.
I may try top working to some native craps with long stems to see if there's any change.

Thanks in advance.

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Peter Dowd

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Jun 4, 2024, 12:41:01 PMJun 4
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Last year I top grafted KB onto a wild thorny crab with long stems and tiny berry sized apples. I did a bit of pruning this year but was planning on letting it grow until the grafts are solid and then pruning from there. I haven't done anything like this before, I'm just winging it. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated since I top grafted more of the same crabs with various varieties this spring.
The photo is from May 4th 2024.
Pete

IMG_0972.jpeg

Nick MacLean

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Jun 4, 2024, 8:10:01 PMJun 4
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This lines up with something I saw during their first summer. They were growing nicely, but we had a heat wave with 10+ days at or over 110f. The new growth tips singed away. The next year these tips split into two or three new shoots. I’ll have to keep an eye on them because I don’t want too much blind wood. Although, the thick canopy is nice, and we rarely have rain or humidity past May/June. 


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
Thanks Nick.
Ya they do that too.  I learned to never summer prune KB as they biforcate in 3 or three then send fruit at that junction with tight angles and the following year the fruit it all piles up in one area.  Gets crowded with fruit and leaves which makes things worse and bugs love it too.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 at 12:48:55 AM UTC-7 Nick MacLean wrote:
Interesting! I’ve got a few KB on G890 going on their 3rd summer in ground. No fruit yet, but the internode distance seems a bit tighter than some other apples. So far, it seems beneficial in my area with our intense dry and hot summers (Columbia river gorge). 

Nick 


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
I have a number of Kingston Black trees, mostly on dwarfing stock that are producing and my semi dwarfd on m111 and b118 have not shared fruit yet.  On M9, b9 and m26 the apples have the shortest stems and actually pop themselves off before they are ripe EVEN when I thin them to one apple per whirl.  If I don't thin I won't get any semi ripe fruit at all.
Rootstock can influence some traits in the apples and wondering if anyone has found any magical combo that creates longer stems and I can properly crop and ripen fruit.  
Trees that are cropping are about 6-7 years old.
I may try top working to some native craps with long stems to see if there's any change.

Thanks in advance.

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Les Price

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Jun 5, 2024, 2:52:52 AMJun 5
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I have quite a few KB on various rootstock and ages, 33 - 4 yrs old. They do have short stems, nature of the beast. Ill usually get about 5 - 10% pre harvest drop around a week before harvest.  These are mostly from the multiple set clusters pushing each other off. KB is a great variety though, for me on the trellis I prefer m26 rootstock, as every year it will drop its crop at maturity.                                                   There could be other factors causing your KB to drop before maturity. 

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 5:10 PM Nick MacLean <mnic...@gmail.com> wrote:
This lines up with something I saw during their first summer. They were growing nicely, but we had a heat wave with 10+ days at or over 110f. The new growth tips singed away. The next year these tips split into two or three new shoots. I’ll have to keep an eye on them because I don’t want too much blind wood. Although, the thick canopy is nice, and we rarely have rain or humidity past May/June. 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
Thanks Nick.
Ya they do that too.  I learned to never summer prune KB as they biforcate in 3 or three then send fruit at that junction with tight angles and the following year the fruit it all piles up in one area.  Gets crowded with fruit and leaves which makes things worse and bugs love it too.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 at 12:48:55 AM UTC-7 Nick MacLean wrote:
Interesting! I’ve got a few KB on G890 going on their 3rd summer in ground. No fruit yet, but the internode distance seems a bit tighter than some other apples. So far, it seems beneficial in my area with our intense dry and hot summers (Columbia river gorge). 

Nick 


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
I have a number of Kingston Black trees, mostly on dwarfing stock that are producing and my semi dwarfd on m111 and b118 have not shared fruit yet.  On M9, b9 and m26 the apples have the shortest stems and actually pop themselves off before they are ripe EVEN when I thin them to one apple per whirl.  If I don't thin I won't get any semi ripe fruit at all.
Rootstock can influence some traits in the apples and wondering if anyone has found any magical combo that creates longer stems and I can properly crop and ripen fruit.  
Trees that are cropping are about 6-7 years old.
I may try top working to some native craps with long stems to see if there's any change.

Thanks in advance.

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Gloria Bell

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Jun 7, 2024, 2:02:46 AMJun 7
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Nick - they tend to always do that here - split into two if you are luck and three is just a pain.  The fruit in the middle get jammed up and are seem to get bug affected easy (tight quarters).  Good thing the fruit makes good cider!


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 at 5:10:01 PM UTC-7 Nick MacLean wrote:
This lines up with something I saw during their first summer. They were growing nicely, but we had a heat wave with 10+ days at or over 110f. The new growth tips singed away. The next year these tips split into two or three new shoots. I’ll have to keep an eye on them because I don’t want too much blind wood. Although, the thick canopy is nice, and we rarely have rain or humidity past May/June. 

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
Thanks Nick.
Ya they do that too.  I learned to never summer prune KB as they biforcate in 3 or three then send fruit at that junction with tight angles and the following year the fruit it all piles up in one area.  Gets crowded with fruit and leaves which makes things worse and bugs love it too.

On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 at 12:48:55 AM UTC-7 Nick MacLean wrote:
Interesting! I’ve got a few KB on G890 going on their 3rd summer in ground. No fruit yet, but the internode distance seems a bit tighter than some other apples. So far, it seems beneficial in my area with our intense dry and hot summers (Columbia river gorge). 

Nick 


On Tuesday, June 4, 2024, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:
I have a number of Kingston Black trees, mostly on dwarfing stock that are producing and my semi dwarfd on m111 and b118 have not shared fruit yet.  On M9, b9 and m26 the apples have the shortest stems and actually pop themselves off before they are ripe EVEN when I thin them to one apple per whirl.  If I don't thin I won't get any semi ripe fruit at all.
Rootstock can influence some traits in the apples and wondering if anyone has found any magical combo that creates longer stems and I can properly crop and ripen fruit.  
Trees that are cropping are about 6-7 years old.
I may try top working to some native craps with long stems to see if there's any change.

Thanks in advance.

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Gloria Bell

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Jun 7, 2024, 2:07:41 AMJun 7
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Mine start dropping well before they are ready - 3-4 weeks as they grow and pop themselves off (shoulders are higher than the stem length).  Not really usable fruit.  I wish it was only a week prior to harvest!   I'm trimming out the shortest of stemmed fruit now but it's significant work.   Interesting on m26.  I think the local orchard has them on m26 too and they get decent crops to maturity.  Trying b118 and I do have one on M26 in the front - I'll be watching it this year and years to come as it really starts to put on fruit.  Thanks!

Bartek Knapek

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Jun 7, 2024, 2:48:58 AMJun 7
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I share the same expecience on KB forking after pruning.
I learned to handle it with taking away whole selected branches, rather than cutting them shorter.

What is your expecience on the amount of crop?
My KB is 8yo, on vigorous rootstock, and still produces far more wood than apples.
A nearby Dabinett, 7yo, same rootstock, produces 3-5 times more fruits...

//Bartek

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