PME enzyme availability in Canada

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Claude Jolicoeur

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Aug 19, 2020, 10:31:43 AM8/19/20
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I have worked with a wine/beer/cider supply store in Quebec to import bulk quantities of the PME enzyme from one of the 2 main suppliers in France. Thus this is the same enzyme used by the French cider producers. It will be repackaged and offered in predosed kits for hobbyists (about 50 L) and for larger batches (about 800 L). Calcium chloride will also be available in matching quantities.

This store has an online boutique from where it will be possible to order. It will probably be another couple of weeks before it appears there however. At this time we don't know what the demand will be like... so it is a bit of a guess. Hopefully there will be enough. If you wish to reserve your kit(s) you may however send an email to the address below. (Google will probably hide the email address - so go to the web site and you will find it there)

The store is:

La Fabrique du Vin
279 rue Saint-Jean

Québec (Qc) Canada
G1R 1N8
tél/fax: 418-525-4834
in...@fabriqueduvin.com (info at fabriqueduvin dot com)
www.fabriqueduvin.com


To the admins: I hope this announcement respects the rules of the forum...

cmei...@gmail.com

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Aug 19, 2020, 11:53:47 AM8/19/20
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Thanks for sharing Claude! I had a difficult time procuring keeving supplies in North America this last year.

Cheers,
Courtney

---------------------
Courtney Meier | Plant Ecologist | Cider Hobbyist | Boulder, CO

Claude Jolicoeur

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Aug 19, 2020, 1:58:47 PM8/19/20
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Le mercredi 19 août 2020 11:53:47 UTC-4, cmei...@gmail.com a écrit :
Thanks for sharing Claude! I had a difficult time procuring keeving supplies in North America this last year.

Courtney, I think the owner can ship to the US, but this would have to be ordered by email as the online boutique isn't set for international shipping. I don't know if it would be cost effective however.

Claude Jolicoeur

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Sep 2, 2020, 11:56:07 AM9/2/20
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As a follow-up, the enzyme has now arrived in town and is offered for sale here:

Hopefully this will facilitate things for those who wish to make keeved cider in Canada...
Claude

Claude Jolicoeur

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Jul 27, 2021, 12:04:42 AM7/27/21
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I am reviving this thread from last year to inform cider makers in North America that this same store again this year is importing bulk quantity of the PME enzyme from Laboratoire Standa in France. They are now taking pre-orders.
The link for those interested is:

Note the web page is in French, but you can send an email in English to Chantal and she will understand...

Gloria Bell

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Nov 6, 2021, 1:19:05 PM11/6/21
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Thanks Claude!  I've ordered some and about to give it a try.  I have Newton Pippin and some tannic red fleshed apples.  Which do you think would be more ideal?  I'm curious about trying it with red flesh.

Gloria Bell

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Nov 6, 2021, 2:23:38 PM11/6/21
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I also have quince which is high in pectin and acid.  Do you think this may be a good option as well?

Claude Jolicoeur

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Nov 6, 2021, 3:38:35 PM11/6/21
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Apparently keeving doesn't work as well with juice that is high in acid, as the acidity would partly neutralize the CaCl2. I have read that it is possible to increase the dosage of CaCl2 in that case, but I don't have direct experience with this, and I can't tell you much more.
So, all the redflesh apples that I have tested had really high acidities, and for Newton Pippin, I don't have experience with it. The TAs that I have for my blends are usually in the 4.5 to 6 g/L (as malic) range, and this is OK for keeving. If you are over that, try it and report back...
Claude

aklau...@gmail.com

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Nov 13, 2021, 9:40:22 AM11/13/21
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Hi Claude,

I just read this thread as I was doing some keeving this week. And I wantet to try out if ekstra addition of CaCl2 vill help the keeving process of high acidic apples:
And one of my batches has a TA = 10,5; pH = 3,2 and SG=1058. 
This batch is made from mostly Belle de Boskoop, Browns Apple and Quince, because I have a lot of those apples this year and none of the Yarlington Mill and Dabinetts left to blend with which I normally do.

I left the apples and quinches to macerate for 24 hours
I put the PME in the same day i pressed it
After two days in the vessel (this morning) I noticed the juice had formed a gel, but it didnt have the flocculating kind of "snowflakes" in it as usually occours just after the CaCl2 is added.
Neither did it after I added the first 0,9 ml/l of CaCl2, but after the second dose it did, but not as clearly as i have seen on other batches. (with the TA of 6,5).
The temperature is around 7-10 degrees C

My plan is to tjeck on it tomorow and se if the gel is still there or I should ad more CaCl2 or ??

-Anders Klausen

Claude Jolicoeur

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Nov 13, 2021, 10:28:01 AM11/13/21
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Anders,
As I said in my previous post, such high acidities are out of the range I have experience with...
I can't say much more, you need to make tests! It would be great if you could have a number of smaller tanks with increasing dosages of CaCl2 to see at which dosage the keeve succeeds.
Claude

aklau...@gmail.com

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Nov 13, 2021, 2:14:24 PM11/13/21
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Claude,
I am aware that Im doing it as an experient. I would have blended some dabinetts or yarlington mills in it if I had some, to bring the acidity down to the recomented level.

Maybe, if i can get more apples, I will do different dosages in different tanks as you mentioned. I have a lot of Belle de Boskoop and I would love to learn how to get the best cider out of them. 

Perhaps I should just adjust the acidity with calcium carbonate prior to the Keeving.

-Anders

aklau...@gmail.com

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Nov 16, 2021, 7:19:52 PM11/16/21
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Just an update on the earlier mentioned high-acidity-keeve experiment: The juice has formed a gel but it is not floating yet (see the picture)

Data:  TA = 10,5; pH = 3,2 and SG=1058. 
Pressed Thursday, added PME.
CaCl2 added saturday morning (2 x normal dossage)
Picture is from tuesday afternoon

day 3 evening.jpg

Gloria Bell

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Sep 25, 2022, 8:26:04 PM9/25/22
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So how did your experiment end up?

Anders Klausen

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Oct 1, 2022, 2:43:12 AM10/1/22
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Hi Gloria, 
The experiment confirmed that high TA is bad for keeving. Or at least verry difficould.

The juice formed some kind of gel (as seen on the picture earlier in this thread) But it never rose to the surface due to its very “loose caracter”. 

So when the “gel” had sunk to half of the vessel, I racked off the clear part and let it into another batch, and discarded the gel.

That other batch was fermented without keeving in a verry cold envoromet and turned out verry acidtic (the other apples Aldi had high TA) but with a final gravity at 1030. Lovely taste and I am satisfied with the result.





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