New screw tops for screw top wine bottles
Melanie Wilson
Andrew Lea
You can't AFAIK get replacement caps for modern (ROPP - roll on pilfer
proof) screw cap wine bottles, the reason being that the thread is
actually formed in situ by machinery from a straight blank around the
glass bottle neck itself, and is of a different profile to the standard
28 mm MCA2 bottle thread. But replacement caps for the later are
available from Vigo see
http://www.vigopresses.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=454
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
Melanie Wilson
bottles as there must be millions in use
Mel
Dick Dunn
> I tend to reuse wine bottles for home brew but these days most seem to be screw top, does anyone know where I can get new replacement lids in preference reusable one
The typical wine bottle screw cap--at least here in the US--is an aluminum
(pardon, aluminium!) type known as "ROPP" for roll-on pilfer proof. The
cap starts out plain straight-sided and is formed onto the threads of
the bottle. All of which is to say that a replacement cap isn't of any
use without the roll-on forming machine.
I've not found replacement eg plastic caps which fit the ROPP glass
threads. The ones Vigo sell (MCA-type) are for a different type of
bottle.
It's a shame, because glass is eminently re-usable. (but for want of a
cap, the bottle was lost...)
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
Melanie Wilson
> use without the roll-on forming machine.
but it should be possible to make caps to fit, the vast majority are
interchangable and the original screw fot on the bottle will be a uniform
soze when formed. I understand what you are saying about forming the lids as
they do but still feel frustrated nobody has made replacent tops, as you say
reuse is much better than recycled
Plastic tops don't fit as the ID is slightly bigger than corked bottles.
Corks probably do, but lately these seem to be rubbish and break up.
Annoyed from Leicestershire ;)
Dick Dunn
the ROPP caps...we just went through the same thought process, and I didn't
check for new mail before I sent mine.)
following on...
On Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 12:17:27AM +0100, Melanie Wilson wrote:
>
> >which is to say that a replacement cap isn't of any
> > use without the roll-on forming machine.
>
> but it should be possible to make caps to fit,...
Agree, it should. But there's no particular market for a replacement
(already-threaded, say plastic with an inner seal) for the ROPP.
The bottles used with ROPP tops are thin enough they're not intended to
be re-used. And it's not practical to re-use them commercially (in fact,
illegal in some situations), so there isn't a market for large quantities
of a re-use cap.
>...the vast majority are
> interchangable and the original screw fot on the bottle will be a uniform
> soze when formed. I understand what you are saying about forming the lids as
> they do but still feel frustrated nobody has made replacent tops, as you say
> reuse is much better than recycled
The real puzzle, to me, is why the ROPP finish (is that the right word for
the top section of the glass mold? I think so) needs to be different from
the MCA. What's the point in having them very close yet incompatible???
It's not like the bottle producers owe -us- a favor, but how does it help
-their- business?
> Annoyed from Leicestershire ;)
Vexed from Hygiene :)
(Hygiene really is the name of the town where I live.)
We're in agreement on the annoyance. I arrived at it from a different
angle: We wanted to use the MCA type caps for a small batch because
they can be applied by hand instead of a rather large and expensive
machine. But although it's easy to get new bottles with ROPP finish,
it's pulling teeth to get a clear bottle with MCA threads here.
Melanie Wilson
(already-threaded, say plastic with an inner seal) for the ROPP.
There is as big a market as there is for cork and plastic tops, which are
redily avaliable in home brew shops. If the screw top bottles
manufacturer(sold in hb shops) had had his or her screwed on they would have
made them in the same dimensions thus increasing the market (of course those
bottle may have come first, pre comercial screw tops)
Not in the same way as commercially, but on the home brew market the same ,
and growing, market as corks, plastic push ins or indeed replacement tops
for the bottles sold for hb (and I guess small commercial) which have a
screw top. OK it won't earn millions but there is a viable market IMHO. So I
guess I'll speak to some top manufactures :)
>The real puzzle, to me, is why the ROPP finish (is that the right word for
the top section of the glass mold? I think so) needs to be different from
the MCA. What's the point in having them very close yet incompatible???
It's not like the bottle producers owe -us- a favor, but how does it help
-their- business?
It probably goes back to omething odd like roman chariot wheel spacing,
these things always seem to. But I'd guess it is just that nobody joined the
dots.
> We wanted to use the MCA type caps for a small batch because
they can be applied by hand instead of a rather large and expensive
machine. But although it's easy to get new bottles with ROPP finish,
it's pulling teeth to get a clear bottle with MCA threads here.
Well if I get a mf interested I'll let you know. Wish I still had a plastic
factory....
Mel
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Andrew Lea
>> Agree, it should. But there's no particular market for a replacement
> (already-threaded, say plastic with an inner seal) for the ROPP.
>
> There is as big a market as there is for cork and plastic tops, which are
> redily avaliable in home brew shops.
No there isn't. Corks and MCA2 caps are made in their millions as caps
for the primary users in big bottling industries. They are not made
specifically as replacements for the home brew trade - it is just that a
minuscule proportion is diverted that way because they are already being
manufactured and we are lucky enough to be able to buy a few of them.
Millions of ROPP blanks are also made but they are the straight
unthreaded type which the primary bottlers use. I can't imagine it would
be worth anybody's while to tool up to produce a pre-threaded ROPP
replacement cap - the home brew market just wouldn't be big enough. A
more likely scenario perhaps is that someone produces a cheap hand tool
which can fit a new ROPP blank to an existing used bottle. That might
happen if screw threads for wine bottles become the norm and replaced
cork, even for small family wineries in Europe. Then it will be worth
someone's while to develop a cheap piece of kit to fit a straight ROPP
blank onto an existing bottle - and incidentally the home brew / re-use
sector would benefit.
But I wish you luck in your quest to persuade the cap mfgs to play ball!
Andrew
Melanie Wilson
I didn't mean to suggest they were but the market sector that buys them for
home brew remains the same.
> I can't imagine it would
be worth anybody's while to tool up to produce a pre-threaded ROPP
replacement cap - the home brew market just wouldn't be big enough.
I suppose it depends how one measures worth. I consider that preservation of
world resources and reuse to be a strong value of worth.
We are not really taking vast sums to tool up for a specific bottle top.
nfcider
which Weston's bought the moulds for ,it was very attractive with a
handle incorporated in the sloping shoulder,the opening had a rim
which allowed you to use a "J" plastic snap-on cap,it was great for
our unpastuerised draught end of the market,as if you had any lively
cider the cap dome would just rise and sometimes pop off.Unfortunately
the moulds were getting past there best and it would have cost£20,000
to rejig and go to a standard metric unit of 2 litres,so thats why
the big boys have switched to the italian Gallone jugs which means you
have to tool up(more expence!),instead of keeping a simple system
which would have encouraged small producers,it was originally produced
for the micro-brewery take-home trade I believe.
Barry Topp
On Jun 7, 11:00 am, "Melanie Wilson"
Melanie Wilson
I'm not specifically looking for cider storage, but as a couplete aside are
Winchester bottles of any use for storage ? I recently aquired a mass of
bottles and jars with a property & would love to find someone who wants to
reuse them, so far a few have gone on FC but I think I've saturated them !