Keeve time

[ardri59]

It's that time of year again and i added calcium chloride 7 days ago and this evening I checked the ibc to see how things were going,so2 was 50% of recommended dose,the sight of a froth has me me thinking it's starting to ferment. There are some pectin clots float on surface too.what do you guys think.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Doesn't look too good to me. Might be that there wasn't enough pectin in the juice. Did you make the pectin test with alcohol?
Claude

[ardri59]

Hi Claude,I didn't do a starch test as I don't have the iodine kit and some of the sweets were starting to really go bad.lesson learned I think.

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

How do you do the pectin test with the alcohol?

Louis

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le jeudi 17 novembre 2016 23:13:50 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

How do you do the pectin test with the alcohol?

Take a test tube (see photo), put 4 mL of juice and 16 mL of isopropyl alcohol 99% (available at Jean Coutu)
The pectin will precipitate and make a gel. On the left tube, it is just after adding the alcohol, and on the right, it is about an hour after.
Depending on the mass of pectin gel, you get an idea of the amount of pectin in the juice.
And on a depectinised juice, no gel appears, this then permits to evaluate if the depectinisation was complete.

See also http://www.ifpc.eu/fileadmin/users/ifpc/infos_techniques/Art_clarification_haute_RPAC_37.pdf
Claude

[CiderSupply.com]

Hi Claude, do you know if the pectin test still holds fair accuracy on previously frozen juice?

Thx

Chris

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le vendredi 18 novembre 2016 03:21:20 UTC-5, CiderSupply.com a écrit :

Hi Claude, do you know if the pectin test still holds fair accuracy on previously frozen juice?

No. Never tried. It would be easy to test though.
Claude

[cidersupply.com]

Thanks Claude, will put that on my test list.

Chris

Cider Supply, LLC 

Ferndale, Washington USA

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[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Wow! This test looks brilliant!

It's a good one to know because I think I missed my keeve this year from a lack of pectin in my juice (should have left the pomage longer before pressing).

I also wonder what pectic enzyme you use to depectinise your juice? The one I use now (the one sold in wine sypplies) is not has efficient has I would like it to be....

Finally, what do you do if you keeve have failled? Do you just rack the juice in a carboy and let it ferment like a normal cider?

Thank you!

Louis

[Dick Dunn]

on one point...
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 09:55:22PM -0800, luis.ga...@gmail.com wrote:
...

> Finally, what do you do if you keeve have failled? Do you just rack the
> juice in a carboy and let it ferment like a normal cider?

Exactly so.
If the keeve fails, it hasn't damaged the must (juice). It's ready to
ferment.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 20 novembre 2016 00:55:22 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

I also wonder what pectic enzyme you use to depectinise your juice? The one I use now (the one sold in wine sypplies) is not has efficient has I would like it to be....

For complete depectinisation, one of the most often used by professionals is Scott Labs Scottzyme Pec5L
http://www.scottlab.com/product-170.aspx
Only problem, it is only sold in 1L container - I think the cost is in the 60 to 80 CDN range.

For my part, I use Endozym Pectofruit, in liquid form - this is sold by Maison Frin in France, and is also seen as "enzyme pour jus de pomme"
http://www.arcafrin.fr/84-cidre-endozym-pectofruit.html
You can make an order there (with also some PME if required), but shipping cost will cost more than the products...
Or maybe you make a stop there when you go to France for a tour of cideries... (which is what I like to do). Or if you have friends in France that come to visit, have it delivered to them before they leave and they'll bring it.

Chris (cidersupply.com) also has an apple pectinase that you may want to try.

And as Dick mentioned, no problem to ferment a failed keeved juice.
Claude