Grafting to New Rootstocks- Bench graft then nursery bed, or graft in situ?
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Matthew Moser Miller
Mar 3, 2017, 10:42:48 PM3/3/17
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Hi folks,
I'm gearing up for my first foray into grafting onto 1-yr bare root M.7 rootstocks (last year I was just trying to topwork some older trees), and I had questions about how people approached it. From my reading, it seems like a bench-grafted whip-and-tongue is often recommended. Once that is done (and after keeping it in a warmer and more humid environment, to encourage the graft to take), do people plant the newly grafted tree directly into its intended location? I had been thinking of building a nursery bed to keep these trees in the first year, then replant them next year in their final setting. Is this what people would recommend, or is the transfer extra strain on the grafted stock?
For context, I'm in Ohio, zone 5/6 (though who knows if those are even still accurate, in the current climate shift). I don't have a poly tunnel or any sort of shelter like that; is that something I should have for apple trees, in a North American context? Also, I was planning on building a nursery bed that would give about 1 sq foot/tree. Is this too little space for M.7 stock in the bed?
Thanks, as always, for any help.
Matt Moser Miller
I'm gearing up for my first foray into grafting onto 1-yr bare root M.7 rootstocks (last year I was just trying to topwork some older trees), and I had questions about how people approached it. From my reading, it seems like a bench-grafted whip-and-tongue is often recommended. Once that is done (and after keeping it in a warmer and more humid environment, to encourage the graft to take), do people plant the newly grafted tree directly into its intended location? I had been thinking of building a nursery bed to keep these trees in the first year, then replant them next year in their final setting. Is this what people would recommend, or is the transfer extra strain on the grafted stock?
For context, I'm in Ohio, zone 5/6 (though who knows if those are even still accurate, in the current climate shift). I don't have a poly tunnel or any sort of shelter like that; is that something I should have for apple trees, in a North American context? Also, I was planning on building a nursery bed that would give about 1 sq foot/tree. Is this too little space for M.7 stock in the bed?
Thanks, as always, for any help.
Matt Moser Miller
Claude Jolicoeur
Mar 3, 2017, 11:43:14 PM3/3/17
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Le vendredi 3 mars 2017 22:42:48 UTC-5, Matthew Moser Miller a écrit :
I'm gearing up for my first foray into grafting onto 1-yr bare root M.7 rootstocks (last year I was just trying to topwork some older trees), and I had questions about how people approached it. From my reading, it seems like a bench-grafted whip-and-tongue is often recommended. Once that is done (and after keeping it in a warmer and more humid environment, to encourage the graft to take), do people plant the newly grafted tree directly into its intended location? I had been thinking of building a nursery bed to keep these trees in the first year, then replant them next year in their final setting. Is this what people would recommend, or is the transfer extra strain on the grafted stock?
Matt,
For my part, I've had good results keeping the newly grafted trees in a nursery bed for a year or sometimes 2 when the first year growth wasn't enough. I feel I can give them better care that way as they are quite fragile.
I am pretty sure however some could say it is perfectly OK to plant them right away in their permanent location. So I guess it's up to you to decide what's more convenient... If the permanent location is now ready and you would need to prepare this nursery bed, it's probably not worth it.
Claude
For my part, I've had good results keeping the newly grafted trees in a nursery bed for a year or sometimes 2 when the first year growth wasn't enough. I feel I can give them better care that way as they are quite fragile.
I am pretty sure however some could say it is perfectly OK to plant them right away in their permanent location. So I guess it's up to you to decide what's more convenient... If the permanent location is now ready and you would need to prepare this nursery bed, it's probably not worth it.
Claude
Wes Cherry
Mar 3, 2017, 11:55:43 PM3/3/17
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We were just having a discussion about this today. We decided it’s best to plant out the grafted trees in place and also interplant an additional 10% or so of trees at the top of the row. Those interplants will get transplanted the following year to replace grafts that don’t take. Any extras will either replace trees that are doing poorly, or be the extras culled, or…
This scheme less work and better for the trees as long as you keep the weeds down.
These days we are planting fairly close (about 1 meter), so the drip line with emitters on 1/2 meter spacing ends up soaking the entire tree row and the interplanted trees get the water they need. On a wider spacing, you would have to install emitters for the interplanted trees and then plug the emitter hole on the drip line when transplanting.
-Wes
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Dick Dunn
Mar 4, 2017, 1:15:02 AM3/4/17
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On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 08:55:28PM -0800, Wes Cherry wrote:
> We were just having a discussion about this today. We decided it's best to plant out the grafted trees in place and also interplant an additional 10% or so of trees at the top of the row...
Wes - Do you mean you plant in-place right after grafting?
If so, I guess I come in somewhere between you and Claude: I graft in
March and put the grafts into 1-gal nursery pots. I rather coddle them at
first, then challenge them more, and plant them out into their intended
places in September or so. This gives around 6 months to find the ones
that really aren't going to make it.
Here's some of my thinking if folks want to poke holes in it. Parts of why
I do it the way I do are because of the facilities I have here, and because
of our climate/weather.
Just after grafting they live on a glassed-in porch where they get plenty
of light but 2/3 indirect (which of course doesn't matter until they start
to get some leaves). The porch is exposed enough to get day/night cycles
in temperature, but not enough to freeze hard.
Once the danger of frost (or at least a hard frost) is past, the pots are
moved to a sheltered location on the east side of a building. That's coz
our prevailing winds, sometimes extreme, are out of the west. It's also to
give them good morning-to-midday sun but avoid the mid-summer blast of heat
we can get here.
Then when it starts to cool off around September, they go out into their
intended spots in the orchard. As you indicate, that saves re-planting--
which can be tough on a tree as well as being more work.
If I have grafts which are sorta making it but seem weak, I'll keep them
over the winter in pots semi-sheltered and pass judgment the next spring.
Some of this is based on the fact that I'm trying as many cider varieties
as makes sense, trying to build information for our region. Hence I'm not
surprised to have varieties which fail outright. My entire orchard is
really one big experiment (even though by now I've got a lot of successes
so I'm making plenty of good cider).
...
> We were just having a discussion about this today. We decided it's best to plant out the grafted trees in place and also interplant an additional 10% or so of trees at the top of the row...
Wes - Do you mean you plant in-place right after grafting?
If so, I guess I come in somewhere between you and Claude: I graft in
March and put the grafts into 1-gal nursery pots. I rather coddle them at
first, then challenge them more, and plant them out into their intended
places in September or so. This gives around 6 months to find the ones
that really aren't going to make it.
Here's some of my thinking if folks want to poke holes in it. Parts of why
I do it the way I do are because of the facilities I have here, and because
of our climate/weather.
Just after grafting they live on a glassed-in porch where they get plenty
of light but 2/3 indirect (which of course doesn't matter until they start
to get some leaves). The porch is exposed enough to get day/night cycles
in temperature, but not enough to freeze hard.
Once the danger of frost (or at least a hard frost) is past, the pots are
moved to a sheltered location on the east side of a building. That's coz
our prevailing winds, sometimes extreme, are out of the west. It's also to
give them good morning-to-midday sun but avoid the mid-summer blast of heat
we can get here.
Then when it starts to cool off around September, they go out into their
intended spots in the orchard. As you indicate, that saves re-planting--
which can be tough on a tree as well as being more work.
If I have grafts which are sorta making it but seem weak, I'll keep them
over the winter in pots semi-sheltered and pass judgment the next spring.
Some of this is based on the fact that I'm trying as many cider varieties
as makes sense, trying to build information for our region. Hence I'm not
surprised to have varieties which fail outright. My entire orchard is
really one big experiment (even though by now I've got a lot of successes
so I'm making plenty of good cider).
...
> > Matt,
> > For my part, I've had good results keeping the newly grafted trees in a nursery bed for a year or sometimes 2 when the first year growth wasn't enough. I feel I can give them better care that way as they are quite fragile.
> > I am pretty sure however some could say it is perfectly OK to plant them right away in their permanent location. So I guess it's up to you to decide what's more convenient... If the permanent location is now ready and you would need to prepare this nursery bed, it's probably not worth it.
> > Claude
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
> > For my part, I've had good results keeping the newly grafted trees in a nursery bed for a year or sometimes 2 when the first year growth wasn't enough. I feel I can give them better care that way as they are quite fragile.
> > I am pretty sure however some could say it is perfectly OK to plant them right away in their permanent location. So I guess it's up to you to decide what's more convenient... If the permanent location is now ready and you would need to prepare this nursery bed, it's probably not worth it.
> > Claude
--
Wes Cherry
Mar 4, 2017, 10:58:09 AM3/4/17
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Wes - Do you mean you plant in-place right after grafting?
It depends on the grafting date. If closer to spring then yes, otherwise we heel them in sawdust in a protected place first.
Conditions are quite mild here (a marine climate similar to sw England). Also, my site isn't very windy.
In a harsher climate like yours I would follow your approach. I'd be nervous about a September transplant, but it sounds like that works for you.
Conditions are so mild here that we often plant purchased one year whips in November. This let's the tree wake up in its new home as soon as conditions are favorable.
-'//es Cherry
-'//es Cherry
Dragon's Head Cider
Vashon Island, Wa US
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Matthew Vasilev
Mar 4, 2017, 11:50:55 AM3/4/17
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Hi Matthew,
We were in a similar spot last year so I thought I'd share some of our reflections:
I think Wes' suggestion is good considering the amount of time it's taking us to transplant 600 trees from our nursery and into the field. That being said we had a very high success rate due to our weeding, mulching, and bug squishing. It was much easier to look after 1300 trees in our 2000sqft nursery than in the one acre slopes orchard... which still needed a years worth of prep before we could plant.
So I guess circumstances are your best determinant. And if your field is ready and your able to mulch, irrigate and weed from the get go in your orchard then I would endorse wes' approach. As we're adding at least 1-2 weeks of extra work with our transplanting.
Wish you the best of luck this grafting season!
-Matthew
Twin Island Cider.
Farmer Paul
Mar 4, 2017, 7:37:42 PM3/4/17
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It all depends on labor and what survival rate you are comfortable with in your operation. Replanting trees is up there with flipping tires and other fitness trends in the U.S. I still remember that week in 2015 crawling down the rows. 2016 was better, but good tough work that eliminates insomnia.
We had reasonable luck placing bench grafted bare roots in buckets with saw dust and planting them in late spring (Eastern Washington State). No frost issues, but hot weather scorched a few trees when we didn't get the drip tube close enough.
We had better success planting bare rootstocks from the nursery in the orchard row at desired spacing (no transplanting required). We planted some rootstock in early spring, a month or more before spring budding; some rootstock was planted in late spring a day before budding. No real noticeable difference in rootstock survival or bud take. They all did pretty well.
I'm sold on double budding (chip budding) rootstocks in place with extra trees at the end of the rows like Wes states. It's much easier/faster. I will always plant some extra from now on.
Your graft choice might make a difference. We are able to get a couple grafters on the weekend inbetween big commercial grafting jobs to walk down the rows and do the chip budding. They are fast with a knife. I am not....
Lots of ways to do it; just takes some trial and error to see what works best for you.
2016 double budding pictures on Facebook @centurysteepcider
I guess things were so busy in 2015 planting bench grafts, I neglected to upload the pictures. Maybe I can get to that next week before we have to start fertilizer and finish finally pruning. Always lots to do!
Great questions and discussion! Best of luck! Call/text anytime.
Paul
Pa...@CiderAuction.com
Matthew Moser Miller
Mar 19, 2017, 8:49:04 PM3/19/17
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Thanks for all the replies! Since I'm working with a pretty small number (and have a much larger order coming in next year), it sounds like putting the grafts into a nursery bed for a year and then doing all the prep at once is the best way to go.
A related question: my rootstocks are due to arrive at the same time as my grafted trees to plant this spring-- around April 10th, according to Cummins. Does doing a bench graft at that time of year (in Ohio, zone 5b, not particularly windy) on the rootstocks sound reasonable to people? And after I do a whip and tongue, should I keep them indoors/in sawdust for a bit to let the graft heal, or is it best to get them in the soil as quickly as possible?--
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Claude Jolicoeur
Mar 19, 2017, 9:49:23 PM3/19/17
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Le dimanche 19 mars 2017 20:49:04 UTC-4, Matthew Moser Miller a écrit :
And after I do a whip and tongue, should I keep them indoors/in sawdust for a bit to let the graft heal, or is it best to get them in the soil as quickly as possible?
I don't think it makes much difference.
For my part, I usually graft one day, and plant in the nursery bed the following day (in beginning of May in Quebec). But others graft earlier and delay the planting. Either way it works - just do as most handy for you and your schedule.
Claude
Dick Dunn
Mar 19, 2017, 11:06:10 PM3/19/17
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On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 06:49:23PM -0700, Claude Jolicoeur wrote:
> Le dimanche 19 mars 2017 20:49:04 UTC-4, Matthew Moser Miller a écrit :
> > And after I do a whip and tongue, should I keep them indoors/in sawdust
> > for a bit to let the graft heal, or is it best to get them in the soil as
> > quickly as possible?
> >
>
> I don't think it makes much difference.
The main point I'd make is not to fuss around with the grafts right after
> Le dimanche 19 mars 2017 20:49:04 UTC-4, Matthew Moser Miller a écrit :
> > And after I do a whip and tongue, should I keep them indoors/in sawdust
> > for a bit to let the graft heal, or is it best to get them in the soil as
> > quickly as possible?
> >
>
> I don't think it makes much difference.
you've done them. Find a place for them--heeled in, or nursery bed, or
"whatever"--but then leave them alone for a while. Every time you move a
new graft, or mess with it, or give any opportunity to bump the scion, you
risk breaking the newly-forming (hence very delicate) graft union.
My approach is to graft and immediately put them into gallon nursery pots
with an appropriate[*] soil mix. I have an east-facing porch, glassed in,
where they live for a few months before I move them outdoors to a sheltered
location, and then plant out in the fall. (I've mentioned some of this
before.)
[*]"appropriate soil mix" means a loose mix--some compost and peat moss to
keep it loose--along with some soil from where they'll end up. Ideally,
when I take the graft out to plant it in the orchard, the soil will be
cohesive enough that I can lift it all out of the pot (as opposed to having
the soil in the pot fall apart and leave me with a bare-root tree!).
The idea is that they go into the pots right away with proper soil suited
to growth, and then they're left alone for a fair while, no physical
disturbance. My porch experiences temperature variation, which I hold to
be a Good Thing, but it won't freeze. It's windy here, which is another
reason I want sheltered locations to prevent stressing the graft union.
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