Racking Advice

[Matt Brogan]

This fall I started my largest batch of cider (30 gallons). It is a special project for our wedding next October. We actually got engaged in Somerset near many of you after a UK road trip this summer (we visited Ben Crossman's, Thatcher's, and Wilkin's plus the Cider Barn in Draycott).

I got fresh unpasteurized juice in early November from a local orachard (western Massachusetts) and split between commerical champagne and cider yeast, and left the rest for a wild fermentation. I stared in buckets and added sulfites to 4 buckets that received commercial yeast, and about half a dose to 1 bucket that I would leave to go wild (per Andrew's advice). OG was 1.052. My racked early (per Claude's advice) into 5 gallon carboys (setting aside the rest for topping off later). The champagne yeast was at 1.022, cider yeast was at 1.028, and wild yeast was at 1.048. Now after two months the champagne yeast is at 1.006, cider yeast is at 1.020, and wild yeast at 1.020. Ambient temp in the cellar is around 10C.

The wild bucket started very slow. I was worried it wouldn't take off and had developed a film yeast. But right after the first rack it started bubbling. I also brought it into a warm room for one night. My guess is a little oxygen from the racking plus temp got it going.

The plan is to rack again and let age (wedding is next fall). My question is should I rack the champagne yeast now since it's going much faster, or is it okay to wait? I'm not necessarily trying to stick the fermentation, but I do want to retain the best flavor. I'm also concerned about racking for a long age when fermentation is completely done- I believe both Claude and Andrew recommend racking with some activity to protect it in a new vessel. But I also plan to sulfite again with this next rack.

I also haven't decided if I want to bottle or keg. If I choose to bottle, would it be better to bulk age then bottle sometime over the summer? Or bottle in the spring before it gets too hot and age longer in the bottle?

Lastly the champagne and wild batches have a strong H2S flavor. I'm fairly certain this is from stressed yeast (I underpitched and didn't add neutriants). I'm basically hoping it will age out as it has in some smaller batches. But if the goal of a long ferment is to reduce neutriants, as Claude describes, how do you avoid H2S?

I hope to update through the year. My goal is to follow a very "traditional" year-long approach. Thanks all!

[Tony Lovering]

I also got H2S after the yeast got stressed. I added a small pinch of DAP to each container and it went away. I feel that you should really stick to the guidelines with cultured yeasts and I will not be trying long and slow fermentation with cultured yeast again. However my natural yeast is going great and will try this again. Try adding a small pinch of DAP to the buckets and see if it reduces the H2S.

I asked the question about aging in the lees and then bottling compared to aging in the bottle and got no response. I since found that maturing with a small amount of sediment in the bottom is better than in the bottle. My bottled stuff seems to stay the same over say a year and doesn't change.

Cheers

[Andrew Pritchard]

Hi, I make about the same quantities also in 5 gallon glass carboys, which dont seem to be used as much here in the UK as in the US. I have made 35 gallons this year, 55 last. I try to keep it simple and just rack once.
The juice goes striaght into the carboys, it is fully fermented (this years just finishing and clearing after a month at 15 deg C using 71b yeast) and then just racked back into a clean carboy for long term storage in bulk in the garage. There seems to be no problem with it sitting on the lees for a few weeks until i can get around to racking it. I always make a few extra 1 gallon demijohns to use for topping up at this point. It is then used 1 carboy at a time by racking into glass 2 litre old cider bottles or if Im busy into freshly emptied 2 litre plastic water bottles which you can buy for 17p and dont seem to need any sterilization -just pour water out and cider in. I dont add any SO2 at racking, just make sure everything is topped right up and drink each bottle quite quickly (not problem) as it does start to get a taint if you leave half a bottle lying about for over a few weeks.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Matt,
As of your racking strategy, the main point is if you wish to retain residual sugar to balance the acidity. Since you probably have a juice from table/dessert apples, this juice might be high in acid (it would be a good idea if you measured TA). The more acidity, the more residual sugar you need to balance things out.
For my part, I normally prefer to bottle my ciders as soon as they are ready for it, this means well clarified and stabilized at a SG between 1.010 and 1.015. However, I don't think there is inherent counter indication for aging in bulk.
Your H2S flavor is a concern. My first reaction would be to reduce yeast population (by racking) as soon as I can notice the smell. Smaller yeast population means less H2S production... Adding nutrients at racking would also probably be a good idea. Ideally, it would be a type of "slow release" nutrient (such as Fermaid O) rather than pure DAP which is very quickly assimilated. Also, the "small pinch" suggested by Tony isn't a very precise measure... Nowadays, scales with a resolution of 0.01 gram are easily bought for a very low price, and there is no excuse for not measuring the exact quantity needed.
Claude

[Simonack]

Oh! A clear cider at 1.010 or 1.015 ! I wish that could happen to me. I guess it comes with experience and perhaps the apple types ! None of my batch (330 gal.) is clear, even the 2 X 55 gal reached SG 1.000 last week (didn't use any product to clarify though).

The temperature in my cellar never exceeded 10°C, and the average is 6-8°C

I definitively have to re-read your book to find out what I could do better.

Cheers

[Tony Lovering]

I rack it off as soon as it reaches the target gravity then add clearing agent, the 2 part stuff, then rack again a week later and it stops dead and crystal clear.

Cheers

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 06:55:39 UTC-5, Tony Lovering a écrit :

I rack it off as soon as it reaches the target gravity then add clearing agent, the 2 part stuff, then rack again a week later and it stops dead and crystal clear.

Essentially, that's it...
I'll add a few tips that may help things.
It helps if you have apples that are naturally low in nutrients, but it may work also with commercially grown apples, although these may require more racking to get fermentation under control.
I also like to start with a clarified must, either by keeving, or simply by debourbage. For my part, I only do the keeving on my later batches. For most of my batches, I do the debourbage.
With an unkeeved cider, first racking should be done early to slow fermentation - typically around SG 1.040.
Stabilisation rackings may or may not be required. This year, it seems my apples have more nutrients than in an average year, and I see faster fermentation speeds. On one of my early batches, I've had to make 4 rackings at 1.040, 1.030, 1.022 and finally 1.018, and it stabilised at 1.016. But on other batches all those intermediate rackings are not necessary. I guess here it is mostly experience that will tell you if and when these intermediate rackings are required. Another point here is that rackings are not as efficient if you use large (commercial-size) fermentation vats, and filtering may be required to supplement.
Once stabilised, if it was well cleared prior to fermentation start, it will usually be clear at this stage. Otherwise, fining may be necessary as Tony said. I also like to use the "2 part stuff" (Kieselsol + Chitosan).
Claude

[Tony Lovering]

Why is racking less efficient in vats? What would be the max size of vat you would use racking for stabilisation? I was going to go for 500 ltr tanks but might use a filter for the last rack. I see there are sheet filters and also cross flow filters. What would you recommend? 

Cheers

[Tony Lovering]

WOW.. Saw this on the Vigo website

Cross flow filtration will have an enormous relevance to people who are trying to retain a high level of residual sugar. You can take a cider at 1020 which is really milky looking and stop it in its tracks.'

Just what I need

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 15:15:11 UTC-5, Tony Lovering a écrit :

WOW.. Saw this on the Vigo website

Cross flow filtration will have an enormous relevance to people who are trying to retain a high level of residual sugar. You can take a cider at 1020 which is really milky looking and stop it in its tracks.'

Just what I need

Yes... Until you see the price tag... However I understand there are now some smaller models which are more affordable. They remain for larger operations.

 

On Sunday, 8 January 2017 20:11:45 UTC, Tony Lovering wrote:

Why is racking less efficient in vats? What would be the max size of vat you would use racking for stabilisation? I was going to go for 500 ltr tanks but might use a filter for the last rack. I see there are sheet filters and also cross flow filters. What would you recommend? 

The question of vat size was mentioned to me by a French producer, and since I have had examples by others that seem to validate this.
My explanation is that on a larger and higher vat, there will be more turbulence due to fluid movement and longer path for CO2 bubbles to reach the top. This turbulence will thus decrease the fraction of yeast biomass that remains on the bottom and gets separated from the cider during racking. The net result is that racking is not as efficient for reducing the yeast biomass.
As far as I know, there is no magic size - just the larger the tank, the more turbulence you are likely to get.

To offset this effect, there is a number of possible solutions:
- make more rackings.
- refrigerate the tank, which will calm things down.
- filter part of the cider during the racking - I have seen producers that would thus filter 50%, or 70% of the cider, and let the rest go unfiltered, as a means to control the yeast cell count. I would recommend if you go that route to equip yourself with a microscope and related yeast counting equipment. By counting the yeast before the operation, and knowing a target yeast count, you can figure the % of the cider you need to filter.
- centrifugation is also popular with French producers.

As of filter type, cross flow is only affordable by the larger/richer producers. Most in France prefer the earth filter as consumables aren't expensive. Plate filter is cheap, but filter plates are expensive...
Claude

[Matt Brogan]

Thanks all! Newbies like me always have a lot of rambling questions, but your comments are really helpful!

Claude, I'm not looking to retain sugar with these batches but I did follow your approach with an early rack to try and have a long slow ferment. I'm actually concerned my pH is too HIGH, measured around 3.8 (sadly I only have cheap strips and no way to measure TA). Some of my test batches with the same juice actually seem to be going through MLF, and one of my filler 1/2 gallons is cloudy and bubbling again looking a lot like MLF. Do you recommend I try to stop it, how? Should I consider adding malic acid? when?

As for racking, my original goal was to have a nice long ferment and bulk age. But it seems like a lot of you advise to just bottle sooner than later. Does anyone choose to bulk age over bottling, why? how? I still wouldn't bottle for a few more months, so I'm basically deciding if I should bottle in say March/April or maybe June/July.

For the H2S, I never would have though racking to reduce yeast would help but it makes sense as you describe it so simply. I've also read splash racking a bit may help, should I be worried about oxidation? I'm going to pick up some Fermaid O tomorrow although I'm worried it will push fermentation faster. I suppose it's more important to deal with the H2S than speed at this point. Although the test batches had the same problem when active and have totally cleared up.

I think my plan is to rack everything tomorrow and add nutrient to the worst batches.  

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 10 janvier 2017 00:09:50 UTC-5, Matt Brogan a écrit :

Claude, I'm not looking to retain sugar with these batches but I did follow your approach with an early rack to try and have a long slow ferment. I'm actually concerned my pH is too HIGH, measured around 3.8 (sadly I only have cheap strips and no way to measure TA). Some of my test batches with the same juice actually seem to be going through MLF, and one of my filler 1/2 gallons is cloudy and bubbling again looking a lot like MLF. Do you recommend I try to stop it, how? Should I consider adding malic acid? when?

Extremely unlikely that you have MLF if temperature is 10C.
And I would strongly suggest you get for yourself a TA kit.
 

For the H2S, I never would have though racking to reduce yeast would help but it makes sense as you describe it so simply. I've also read splash racking a bit may help, should I be worried about oxidation? I'm going to pick up some Fermaid O tomorrow although I'm worried it will push fermentation faster. I suppose it's more important to deal with the H2S than speed at this point. Although the test batches had the same problem when active and have totally cleared up.

Fermaid O should not cause an increase of fermentation speed if you don't overdose it.
You need to understand there are 2 types of nutrients that may be added to cider:
DAP is like YAN, easily and quickly assimilable by the yeast, and in general used by yeast for growth of the population. This sort of nutrient will in general cause an increase of fermentation speed.
Other type, like Fermaid O is what I call a "slow release" nutrient. Think of it as drip irrigation. There is not enough N released at a given moment for the yeast to use for population increase, but only enough for feeding. This is the type of nutrient that will most effectively prevent H2S production.
Claude

[Tony Lovering]

Is Fermaid K the same as Fermaid O?

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 10 janvier 2017 03:13:19 UTC-5, Tony Lovering a écrit :

Is Fermaid K the same as Fermaid O?

Fermaid K is a mixture of DAP with some organic nutrients, while Fermaid O is only organic nutrients.
You should download the Scott Lab Cider Handbook for more complete info.
For Canada it is here: http://www.scottlabsltd.com/resources/handbooks/
Claude

[Matt Brogan]

Claude, test batches are up in my apartment above >20 C. They fully cleared but the wild yeast and an un-sulfited test kept bubbling, got hazy, and raised pH. But yes the large batch is out in the cold so probably not a problem yet. I will want to stop it when things warm up in the spring, would a final racking onto SO2 be enough prevention? (I'll re-read that chapter of your book)

And thanks for clarifying the nutrients. This is a big step up for 1 gallon batches in my apartment.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 10 janvier 2017 11:08:44 UTC-5, Matt Brogan a écrit :

Claude, test batches are up in my apartment above >20 C. They fully cleared but the wild yeast and an un-sulfited test kept bubbling, got hazy, and raised pH.

OK, that explains it.
But why do you want to prevent MLF? You can just let it do its thing. Again, TA measurements would be useful to know what is happening...
Claude

[Matt Brogan]

Claude, we generally prefer high acid ciders. My goal is to have a sharp, dry champagne like option and a rounder, 'draft' option. For a wedding of mostly non-cider drinkers I wanted to focus on something clean and brite. And also follow a simple process so I can learn.

My original plan was to bulk age so I figured I would sulfite at a stabilization racking, which would hold off MLF anyway. I guess letting it happen is an option but I'm still concerned about the relative high pH (but I'm ordering a TA kit today). Do you think it would be better to try and stop MLF to maintain more acidity? Or just let it happen and maybe adjust with malic acid later?

How do you decide to add SO2 for bulk aging or at bottling? I just assumed it would be a good idea for aging a bottling as long as 6-9 months.

Thanks!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Matt, for my part, I don't really have experience with ciders that would have too low acidity...
My apples generally are rather high in acid and I always have to work in order to lower this acidity rather than the opposite.
Hence I am not really well placed for giving you good advice for this.

As of SO2 at bottling, if you do some bottle conditioning, it will all bind rapidly. It is not really necessary if the bottles are kept cool until drank. But it could be useful to prevent MLF.
Claude

[Matt Brogan]

Update... This past weekend I did a second racking. Two carboys of WLP775 were at 1.010 and 1.007, two of EC1118 were both at 1.000, and one with wild yeast was at 1.004. I topped up with extra from each batch I had in smaller containers, and added about 25ppm sulfite to each (3 campden tablets for 5.5gal) to stop MLF and protect for bulk aging. Claude, I wasn't able to rack and add DAP when you suggested it, but my H2S problem seems to have disappeared (with only a slight funk on the backend in the wild batch).

Now I need advice on my next steps:

1. Age in carboys for 6 months until just before I'm ready to keg. They are in a cool cellar, but I worry about higher temps over the summer.

2. Age a few months then keg early-May (before it gets too hot). For the kegs, should I force carbonate at that point then age? Or just seal up the keg and force carbonate later? *This is my preference since I want to bottle condition some for gifts.

3. Or... shouldn't have racked again at all, I should have waited a few more weeks until clear and bottled/kegged ASAP. I really debated this with myself, but wanted to try and follow a "traditional" schedule when larger makers might rack into bulk storage or blends. Next year I would probably just add sulfite and let them sit.

Should I sulfite again in the kegs (they will sit for another 4 months)? Is the only way to know to test for free SO2, or is there a general assumption of what portion will remain free in storage (post-fermentation)? Should I sulfite before bottling? I really can't find a lot of information about sulfites for storage.

Of course I should mention the taste! Strong alcohol upfront, but good residual apple taste and no major off-flavors. I hope the WLP775 drops out a bit off-dry. The wild has just a touch of funk, which might be interesting with age (but controlled with this last rack). Overall I was hoping for a little more depth and tannins, but I still only started with a fairly commercial blend.

Thanks all!

Matt

[Andrew Lea]

On 07/03/2017 21:50, Matt Brogan wrote:


> Is the only way to know to test for free SO2, or is there a general
> assumption of what portion will remain free in storage
> (post-fermentation)? Should I sulfite before bottling? I really can't
> find a lot of information about sulfites for storage.

The SO2 you add pre-fermentation will all be bound up by the end. None
of it will remain free. The standard routine for protection in bulk
storage or at bottling is to add 50 ppm to achieve 20-30 ppm free SO2
after a week or so (to allow for initial oxidation and binding).

Professional winemakers and cidermakers who use SO2 in bulk storage will
monitor it every so often and top it up if it drops below 20 ppm free.
Of course the cider must be stored in the absence of air too.

If as an amateur you want to follow the same routine, I suggest you make
occasional measurements with Titrets (readily available in the USA).
Guesswork doesn't cut it. At least, not until you have plenty of
experience under your belt.

Andrew

--
near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Wayne Bush]

Picking up on a thread from a year ago......I have been trying the nutrient deprivation method to achieve a slow and then stuck fermentation.  I'm using dessert apples from an unfertilized orchard and a cultured yeast at moderate temperatures (around 8 degrees C).  I did a first racking on day 17 when the fermentation speed reached 700 FSU, but since then fermentation has continued roughly between 200 and 300 FSU.  I didn't think about the multiple rackings that Claude describes, but will rack tomorrow on day 31 at SG of 1.012 and hope for the best.  Nevertheless, I  suspect this cider is going to go completely dry.  I was wondering whether, when using a cultured yeast (which I use in part to help reduce the acidity in my cider), it would have been a good idea to use a lower quantity of yeast than the manufacturer recommends when I initially pitched the yeast.  Would this have resulted in fewer yeast cells and a slower fermentation rate?  Or would the speed have picked up to the same level once the fermentation got underway?  I realize this is a hypothetical question, but just wonder whether a lower than normal initial dose of yeast is a viable way to help achieve a slow fermentation?  I know Andrew recommends following the manufacturer's instructions for pitching--they are there for a reason--but perhaps this would be a reasonable exception?  Regards, Wayne

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Wayne, there is something that doesn't work with your numbers... I suspect you do something wrong when doing the FSU calculation.

You write:

I did a first racking on day 17 when the fermentation speed reached 700 FSU,

I don't know what the starting SG was, but 700 FSU is 7 points of gravity per day - hence 17 days at 700 FSU would mean a drop of 119 points... Your cider would have been completely dry in much less than 17 days if you really had 700 FSU!

 

but since then fermentation has continued roughly between 200 and 300 FSU.  I didn't think about the multiple rackings that Claude describes, but will rack tomorrow on day 31 at SG of 1.012 and hope for the best. 

Again, if for example your starting SG was 1.060, and you say now after 31 days you are at 1.012, this is a drop of 48 points in 31 days, so an average of 155 FSU. At this moment, your actual speed certainly is much lower than that number...
 

Nevertheless, I  suspect this cider is going to go completely dry. 

Possibly, but if you had racked earlier, maybe you could have succeeded in making it stick. For my part, I usually make the first racking at day 10 approximately (you did yours at day 17), and then if speed is still too high I can make a second by day 20. This is normally sufficient to calm down the speed, and make it possible to stick at about 1.010 to 1.015 (but sometimes more rackings are needed).
 

I was wondering whether, when using a cultured yeast (which I use in part to help reduce the acidity in my cider), it would have been a good idea to use a lower quantity of yeast than the manufacturer recommends when I initially pitched the yeast.  Would this have resulted in fewer yeast cells and a slower fermentation rate?  Or would the speed have picked up to the same level once the fermentation got underway?

This effect may be more or less important depending on the nutrients levels. When there is a lot of nutrient, the difference is quite negligible. But with low nutrients, it may become more important. I routinely use half doses when using cultures yeast.

Claude

[Wayne Bush]

Claude, Happy New Year and thanks for your reply.  I can see that you must be right that my calculations are off.  I admit to enjoying making cider but being poor at math, not to mention biochemistry!  So I try to follow the best available advice, which I always find on this forum.   If my FSU is actually slower than I thought it was--perhaps with racking today I will still succeed in making an off-dry cider.  I will PM a copy of my FSU calculations in case you can spot what I'm doing wrong.  All the best, Wayne 

[Crab & Winkle]

What about a very slow FSU early on? My feelings are to leave things as they are but maybe someone could let me know if the following should be of concern:

2017-11-04 - Pressing

==SG - 1.063;  Brix 15.4;  PH - 3.61;  TA - 0.8% tartaric 

2017-12-17

==SG - 1.049;  Brix 12.4;  Ph 3.57

1-063 - 1.049 = .014:  100 x 14/38 days = 36.8 FSU

Temperature increased in cidery to 14C.

2018-01-16

==SG 1.041; Brix 12.2

I did not sulphite, nor pitch a yeast so maybe that's the answer to my question...

My orchard is 30 years old, 35+ varieties, lime and crab meal being the only 'intervention'. 

It's tasting pleasant but worried my yeast population may need assistance. 

Wassail!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Yes, it is definitely slow!
I suspect your apples are very low in natural nutrients, and there wasn't enough for the yeast population to grow much.
But it is going (albeit slowly).
Now, what are your options?
1- If you are not in a hurry and could use a sweet cider, then do nothing, let it go - it will keep on slowly and probably stabilize during the summer at a SG somewhere between 1.020 and 1.030 - you can then bottle for a sweet.
2- Activate things just a bit by adding a small dosage of nutrients. If you add now something like 25 ppm of DAP, this would activate the fermentation. And when it will reach 1.020, you should be able to rack in order to stabilize it around 1.015 and obtain a medium.
3- If you want a dry, you could add a bigger dose of DAP (like 50 ppm or more). But then there is more risk of H2S production and I would recommend you also add some organic nutrient which is "slow release" to make sure the larger yeast population has something to feed on.
Claude

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Claude, what could be a good amount of fermaid K to add to limit h2s production of a fermenting cider that shows some signs?

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2018 20:47:17 UTC-5, luis.ga...@gmail.com a écrit :

Claude, what could be a good amount of fermaid K to add to limit h2s production of a fermenting cider that shows some signs?

To be frank, I don't know...

With a fast action nutrient like DAP, it is fairly easy to make a calculation of how much yeast biomass increase you can get from so many ppm of DAP added.
But once you have your yeast population, it still needs minute amounts of nitrogen for feeding every day - hence the use of the slow release organic nutrients.

There must be some studies on this, but I have never seen anything.
Common sense says that if you have X grams of yeast biomass per liter of cider, you then need Y mg per liter and per day of nitrogen that is released for feeding that population.
In fact, it is the same as with any population of living organism. If you have X grams of fish in an aquarium, you need Y grams of food every day - same principle...

I just don't know the relation between X and Y for yeast!

Claude

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

I understand....

I'll rack it and add a pinch of fermaid K (50 ppm, which correspond to about 1/4 of recommended dosage) and hope for the best. The yeast used was Lalvin C (first time I try it) and even if the datasheet mention that ''no undesirable fermentation by-products such as H2S'' is produced, it seems it produces more that 71B-1122.

As discussed in a previous post, this cider was fermenting in a cold place (aroud 5 deg. C). Could the low temperature make the yeast unhappy and favor h2s production?

Louis

[Tom Bugs]

I happened to purchase a 30L barrel of really good cider last year from a local place closing down -this blend won CAMRA award a few years back - about 85% dabinett, 15% browns - absolutely no additions throughout ---- and the interesting thing is the label with gravity readings:::

Pressed Nov 15 - SG 1.066
Racking 1 end of Feb 16 - 1.028 (+ checked mid march - 1.027)
Racking 2 mid may 16 - 1.020
Racking 3 mid/late June - 1.015 (+ checked mid Aug - 1.013)
Racking  4 May 2017 - 1.011
Racking 5 Aug 17 - 1.008

I think some of the rackings were mainly due to spitting up and mixing bigger barrels down to smaller amounts - but pretty fascinating sloooooow process. I drank the first sip of it almost exactly 2 years after pressing - bloody lovely stuff.

[Tom Bugs]

PS - I believe those trees are about 20 yr old bush trees without additions/fertilizer.
UK/southWales

[Ian Shields]

A starting gravity of 1066 seems pretty high in the UK for those apples without some extra sugar? 

Ian 

On 17 Jan 2018 14:50, "Tom Bugs" <bugb...@gmail.com> wrote:

PS - I believe those trees are about 20 yr old bush trees without additions/fertilizer.
UK/southWales

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[Erik Homenick]

Thank you kindly for your help Claude, Luis and Tom! Such a fantastic group to be a part of and I'm grateful for your sage advice. 

Tom - I seem to be creeping at the same pace as yours did - not expecting recognition from CAMRA however :)  I attended one of their festivals at Merton Farm in Kent a few times and loved it!  Congratulations on your award!  Not an easy feat no doubt. 

I think I'll monitor more closely.  If it gets stuck then maybe I'll add some Fermaid-O.  I'd like to end up with a medium sweet to balance with my high TA.  Merci Claude -J'apprécie vos conseils!

Wassail!

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[Tom Bugs]

Unfortunately I can't take credit for that cider - just reporting what was on the sheet of readings.
But I'm doing my first year of natural fermentations with old, low nutrient apples like you - I'll see if I can post readings tomorrow, but I think it is the same ball-park rate as you're seeing. I've not calculated FSU before, but would be a simple task.

1.066 does seem quite high, but not outlandish (from my little experience) - sure he wouldn't have added sugar - 100%.