thatchers "rose" katy cider
bombadilo
just got back from sainsburys. noticed they are selling thatchers
"rose" katy cider. (sorry my keyboard cannot do the fancy thing above
the e).
at the marches cyder circle we had a katy challenge last year. each
member made a gallon of single variety cyder from katy apples and we
had a putley style taste off. they all had different tastes and
colours despite the fact they were all made from the same katy apples.
i know the colour of cyders can vary dramatically, and there are some
apples that make a particularly reddy cyder (YM, strawberry norman
etc) however none of the entries to the katy challenge were bright
pink like this thatchers rose cider !
makes you think what have they added ?
phill
Mark Shirley
> apples that make a particularly reddy cyder (YM, strawberry norman
> etc) however none of the entries to the katy challenge were bright
> pink like this thatchers rose cider !
>
> makes you think what have they added ?
>
> phill
Thatchers do claim that the colour comes from the apples themselves, but I
doubt they'd be any more forthcoming about the process than they have been
about the colour of their Cheddar Valley cider (commonly known as Deisel in
the West Country).
However... have a look at this tasty image
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/75976021@N00/3678112695/) which is of a
Brown's Apple single variety cider, which was kindly trunked home for me by
Ray & Gail. The Brown's Apples I've pressed are frequently red fleshed, so
it's perhaps no surprise that the cider can look like this, but I've seen
other Brown's SV's that looked like ordinary cider.
So the question is, how do you extract and retain the colour from a red
fleshed apple, and does katy exhibit red flesh very much. If not, the colour
must presumably be coming from the skin. It's certainly and attractive (and
'commercial') colouring.
Heck's Port Wine of Glastonbury SV had a pink hue this year, but it's since
been revealed that this came from ex-red wine casks, so doesn't count.
Mark
http://rockinghamforestcider.moonfruit.com/
http://rockinghamforestcider.blogspot.com/
nfcider
It has been known in some west country producer's circles that to
improve the colour if you had a few beetroot spare,mix them in with
the apples when milling, it's surprising how few are needed to enhance
to a deeper ruby colour in the end of the fermentation.
Barry
On Jul 1, 5:14 pm, "Mark Shirley" <markshirle...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Andrew Lea
>>
>
> So the question is, how do you extract and retain the colour from a red
> fleshed apple, and does katy exhibit red flesh very much. If not, the colour
> must presumably be coming from the skin. It's certainly and attractive (and
> 'commercial') colouring.
It can be done though it isn't easy. The trick is to prevent oxidation /
polymerisation of the rather labile apple anthocyanin pigment (cyanidin
3-galactoside), which is much more vulnerable than the similar pigment
in red wine making. Two ways I have seen reported in the literature are
by careful use of either ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) or sulphite as
antioxidants. However, too much of either and the colour is bleached
again. A simpler way is the addition of commercial anthocyanin pigment
(usually made from grapes) and then paying the 'made wine' duty rate. I
know at least one product on the market made this way.
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
Matthew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bombadilo
> just got back from sainsburys. noticed they are selling
> thatchers "rose" katy cider. (sorry my keyboard cannot do the
> fancy thing above the e).
If using a normal PC it is right alt key (alt Gr) and e.... é
Matthew
Nick at Ciderniks
Nick
Edwards
Ciderniks – Cider from Kintbury
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Andrew Lea
> */The reddest cyder I have ever seen was some Discovery I made last year. /*
>
>
> */I wondered at the time if there was a connection between the colour
There is no necessary connection that I can see. Almost certainly 2
unrelated things, unless you had left it a long time on the pulp
unprotected to extract the skin colour and it had got infected at that
time. Did you do anything special to extract the colour?
In any case, if you think about it, millions of litres of red and rosé
wine are made and sold without them being especially prone to 'Auntie
Ethyl'!
The Marches Cyder Circle
----- Original Message -----From: Andrew LeaSent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:19 AMSubject: [Cider Workshop] Re: thatchers "rose" katy cider
There is no necessary connection that I can see. Almost certainly 2
unrelated things, unless you had left it a long time on the pulp
unprotected to extract the skin colour and it had got infected at that
time. Did you do anything special to extract the colour?
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2214 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00
David Llewellyn
Andrew Lea wrote:
"It can be done though it isn't easy........... A simpler way is the
addition of commercial anthocyanin pigment (usually made from grapes) and
then paying the 'made wine' duty rate. I know at least one product on the
market made this way."
Just the other day somebody over here was telling me they had had this cider
in England, and they were raving about it. Is it actually a pure juice
cider, or is one allowed speculate about a particular product in public like
on this forum?
Since its so easy to add things to cider, if you were a manufacturer and
wished to add red colour, would you not just claim it came from the apples
and thus avoid paying the 'made wine' duty? Or am I being too cynical here?
Would HM C&E actually analyse for the colour and catch you out?
David L.
Andrew Lea
>
> Since its so easy to add things to cider, if you were a manufacturer and
> wished to add red colour, would you not just claim it came from the apples
> and thus avoid paying the 'made wine' duty? Or am I being too cynical here?
> Would HM C&E actually analyse for the colour and catch you out?
It is so easy to analyse and check for added food colours (even for the
nature of the anthocyanin present) that I cannot believe any reputable
manufacturer would breach HMRC notice 162. They would be quickly
discovered by C&E, Trading Standards or by their competitors.
David Llewellyn
"It is so easy to analyse and check for added food colours (even for the
nature of the anthocyanin present) that I cannot believe any reputable
manufacturer would breach HMRC notice 162. They would be quickly
discovered by C&E, Trading Standards or by their competitors."
make it more risky. I didn't realise it was so easy to check the nature of
added colours.
How much is the 'made wine' duty in the UK?
David L.