Maytag vs. Waste King Disposals for Milling

[Luke Harrison]

Hi Everybody,

Long time reader, first time poster. Many thanks for your collective
wisdom! Making my first from-the-apples run of cider this year.

After an unpleasant first attempt at milling using a cheap grape
grinder, I've decided to go the kitchen sink disposal route (no time to
swing anything else, apples are waiting).

I am trying to decide between the Maytag 5500 (all SS) for ~$250 CAD or
the Waste King 9800 for $150 CAD. I am leaning toward the Waste King but
it has a glass-filled nylon grinding chamber with SS components.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the food safety of glass-filled nylon
(I am guessing it's fairly benign, particular in this application) or
any experience with either of these models?

Also, for Canadian cider makers: my 80% Golden Russet 10% Cortland and
10% Crab (redflesh) blend came out at 1.060 and pH 3.35 although no
detectable (to my palate) tannin.

Thank you,

Luke.

[Nat West]

No feedback on your specific question, but I have used a garbage disposal (all stainless InSinkErator Excel) for a couple years to good effect. It is relatively slow, but I can run through about 30+ gallons of pulp in an hour of work. The key to making them work continuously is to remove all housing, leaving only the motor casing. Then add supplemental cooling to the motor via air or water-cooling. I have details on both methods if you get to that point. I did 500+ gallons of cider last year with my disposal, but that was a mistake and will never do that much volume again with that unit, it is too slow.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

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[Nat West]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Murphy <wcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nat, Can you offer up details on your cooling methods for a disposal?  

1/4" copper tubing used for refrigerator icemaker line wrapped around the motor housing (remove all plastic), soldered in place. Wire-brush remove the paint first. Repaint to avoid instant rusting. Ends hang down a bit, plastic/vinyl tubing from there to a small aquarium pump submerged in a bucket of ice water. I still have that kit in the basement but have since moved on, in a big way. The InSinkErator Excel is, IMO, an excellent garbage disposal for a grinder due to it's complete stainless grinding bowl. Whether or not garbage disposals are the right tools for the job in general is debatable, and depends highly on your personal situation.

 

How did you rack out of the big barrels?  With a pump?  

Yes, starting with the world's most over-hyped pump, the March 809. That lasted a half a barrel. Then an Italian job called "Tellarini Pompe" which I still have around for backups. Now I'm into a large sanitary Thomsen #4 with 1 HP motor. Just stick a tube/hose/pipe into the barrel and try not to suck up sludge from the bottom.

 

Lots of cider apples available up there in Oregon?  Slim pickins down here but our trees are growing every year.

Cider apples aren't available anywhere unless you grow them yourself! Lots of eating apples though, so I have a lot of practice making acceptable cider with them. And I'm working with growers to plant cider apples for the future.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

[Dick Dunn]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:40:31PM -0700, Nat West wrote:
...snip...

> > How did you rack out of the big barrels? With a pump?
>

> Yes, starting with the world's most over-hyped pump, the March 809...

AMEN to that! I don't know why or how the March 809 has showed up in so
many places and been (mis)sold by so many online-retailers. What a loser!
OK, it's the right pump for its design--which is a recirculating pump for
hydronic heating systems. You've probably not seen any variant of it in
the UK, in which case you're lucky.

The trouble is that it's a low-capacity centrifugal pump. Centrifugal
rigid impeller means not-self-priming, which is enough of a nuisance to
damn it. But low capacity means that the pump chamber is very small.
A centrifugal pump fails when its chamber mostly fills with air, so a
small chamber only needs one little bubble to quit.

(I've got a short review of 3 small pumps in the works for the next Cider
Digest, but I hope Nat's notes on other slightly-larger pumps will trump
what I have to say.)

--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Murphy]

". Whether or not garbage disposals are the right tools for the job in general is debatable, and depends highly on your personal situation."

Is that what you are still using?  I really like the consistency you get with a disposal, seems like the best way to maximize yield for a given press. Those european mills seem like a glorified wood chipper for 1500$ and definitely over crusher destemmers (what a pain in the ass).  

Chris Murphy

San Luis Obispo

[Nat West]

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Murphy <wcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is that what you are still using?

 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, no. My biggest year was 500 gallons of cider with the disposal and it was a mistake no matter how you look at it. If you plan to produce that much, you need a purpose-made (or -built) tool. The Italian Zambelli trumpet may be worth it's price (~$1300) but my money's on the OESCO HDPE-6 ($1925). Working quickly, I can process about 6000 lbs of apples in a day. Rewire the motor to 220 volts if you're contemplating that number as it's prone to overheating if run continuously. I ran through about 45k lbs of apples with it over the course of about 10 pressing days this year. Very shortly though, I will graduate to a Goodnature crop chopper and pomace feed system ($35k).

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

[Murphy]

Nate, sorry to bug you again, at this point those big bad ass grinders are out of my league, we are keeping it relatively sane in the 70 gallon range.  When you used the insinkerator, did you prep the apples first or just jam them in whole?  When I did it before we cut them up a bit, but that is a lot of work.

What consistency does the OESCO get?  IT seems like a lot of those purpose made tools get the apples to a rough chop and doesn't get it broken up like  a disposer.  I like the disposer because it makes the pulp like apple sauce and pressing seems a lot easier and more efficient.  Do you notice that or am I maybe a bit short sighted in this?

So you are making this much cider with table apples?  Do you just try and find as much acid in apples and inhibit MLf?  The gravenstiens are my savior  hear to add some character in my cider in the form of mostly malic acid and it has worked well. The wild ferments seem to loose acid and character with time, which I blame on MLF.  This is what I have deduced, but could be off?  I have trouble reading up on/understanding cider making because most literature is from back east or way east where proper apples are available, so it is nice to talk to others using eating apples for cider.

Thanks

[Murphy]

Of course I meant Nat, not Nate, sorry.

[Nat West]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Murphy <wcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you used the insinkerator, did you prep the apples first or just jam them in whole?

Depends on the size. Many apples can go in without cutting. Big dessert apples need quartering. With a nice rhythm, I could chop them quickly, without any nicks. But that's a big bottleneck

 

What consistency does the OESCO get?  IT seems like a lot of those purpose made tools get the apples to a rough chop and doesn't get it broken up like  a disposer.  I like the disposer because it makes the pulp like apple sauce and pressing seems a lot easier and more efficient.  

The OESCO HDPE 6" produces very nearly the same consistency as the old disposal. That is, coarse apple sauce. With patience, I could get up to 75% yield. But the key word there is patience, i.e. slow.

 

So you are making this much cider with table apples?

 Not all non-cider apples are equal. A straight Newtown Pippin or Winesap make a great cider as opposed to Honeycrisp, for example.

 

 Do you just try and find as much acid in apples and inhibit MLf?

I don't get MLF, or very rarely anyway.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon

[Chris Murphy]

Thanks Nat.  Do you sulphite and pitch or wild ferment usually?

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[Nat West]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Chris Murphy <wcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Nat.  Do you sulphite and pitch or wild ferment usually?

Depends on the variety I'm making.

-Nat West, Portland Oregon 

[Murphy]

Hey nat,

I am pretty new to using groups like this, I really should have searched more to see your many emails on your disposal set up.  Sorry for that.

Your website looks great and I hope to get up to portland and try out your cider one day.