Small Scale Cider Fining in Maturation

[will g.]

Hello,

I've got about 40 gallons of Northern Red Spy (plus other dessert leaning varietals blended in) cider fully fermented in bulk maturation. Unfortunately, I didn't use any pectinase before fermentation and I'm not getting much clearing. In the past I would just roll with it and pour carefully, but last year's blend was similar and the bottles have large globs of what I believe to be pectin that compact at the bottom and dislodge when the bottle is opened from carbonation. I'd like to remedy this before bottling.

I'm wondering if it's too late to try pectinase to clear what I have in maturation? If so, would I increase the quantity? I've seen reference to the Scottzyme KS but that is quite expensive. I could also try Kieselol/Chitosan but prefer to keep the product vegan. I don't want to do any damage to the cider and would like to maintain the flavor there.

I'd love any input here including how much of each product I might start with adding.

Thank you!
Will

[Vince Wakefield]

You could just wait and let time do it for you.

 

Vince.

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/5254fadd-3141-47d6-88ce-17f565bcaa21n%40googlegroups.com.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le samedi 3 mai 2025 à 12:13:14 UTC-4, will g. a écrit :

 I could also try Kieselol/Chitosan but prefer to keep the product vegan. I don't want to do any damage to the cider and would like to maintain the flavor there.

I usually, in such situation, use the Kieselol/Chitosan tandem. It works well, although the dosage often needs to be increased relative to the recommendations. It is a good idea to make tests on small bottles in order to figure the ideal dosage. I have never noticed any adverse effect on flavor.

Bentonite also works if you absolutely want to keep it vegan.

I would not recommend however the gelatin/kieselsol tandem on cider. This works better on perry.

[Brent Miles-Wagner]

Scottzyme KS wouldn't work because it's not formulated to work in the presence of alcohol but something like the Scottzyme Spectrum, which is formulated for post-fermentation additions, would: https://scottlab.com/scottzyme-spectrum-enzyme-sctzmsp. Afraid it doesn't help with the cost issue but I have had good success with Spectrum.

[Brent Miles-Wagner]

Also there are vegan chitosans made from aspergillus niger: https://www.enartis.com/en/products/wine/stabilizing-agents/chitosan/enartisstab-micro/

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 6 mai 2025 à 04:13:08 UTC-4, Brent Miles-Wagner a écrit :

Also there are vegan chitosans made from aspergillus niger: https://www.enartis.com/en/products/wine/stabilizing-agents/chitosan/enartisstab-micro/

Interesting... These Chitosan formulations are aimed at biological stabilization rather than clarification. There is nothing on the datasheet about dosages for clarification nor about combination with a silicium solution such as Kieselsol.

From the data sheet: "Chitosan-based preparation specifically for microbiological stabilization of wine."

[rhand...@rockisland.com]

We used Chitosan for the first time last year before racking to control Brett issues. So far so good and it did clarify the cider. However, I miss the funky Bretts, but it bothered the partner a lot😊

--

--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/77060961-2278-4ce7-a688-a0fa0306067fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Brent Miles-Wagner]

No dosages but it does mention clarification under applications:

"▪ Improve clarification and filterability"

I imagine it would end up being perhaps more expensive than ideal if used as primarily a clarifier, however. 

Just emailed a contact there about kieselsol interaction but the email bounced, will report back if I can get an answer somewhere else.

[will g.]

Hello,

I bought some bentonite to try to fine but reread Andrew Lea’s site and found the following:

“Bentonite on its own is often used as fining to remove protein hazes from grape wines, but ciders contain much less protein and protein hazes do not  form, so bentonite alone is of little value to the cidermaker.” 

Is it still worth a shot to try the bentonite on its own? If so, what’s a good starting point in terms of amount/gallon?

Thanks,

Will

--
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/cider-workshop/9jX7BfaH91M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/de827742-f62a-4d3f-81c8-6597bacaff3en%40googlegroups.com.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

I have used it only once on cider, at 100 g/hL, and it worked well, although it did take 3 weeks to perfectly clarify. Probably a higher dosage would have permitted to clear faster.

You can try on a few test bottles with different dosages before applying to the whole batch.