Acid reduction & Using Precipitated Chalk

[Oddball]

Having made a fairly small quantity of 'Eastern Counties' style cider
last year we have found that, tasting it now, it is quite acidic, as
would be expected. So this year I am thinking that some method of acid
reduction might be a good idea and I came accross preciptated chalk on
a particular website and was wondering if anyone out there has any
experience of using this to reduce acid. Specifically does it work and
are there any flavour effects?

Matt in Ely

www.treeofplentycyder.co.uk

[Raymond Blockley]

When I started out trying to make the best cider I could from locally-sourced Nottinghamshire-grown fruit, I tried everything (I still have a 1kg tub of Calcium Carbonate...) but all affected the taste and the results where questionable. Over the years, I've found that post-fermentation blending and getting an ML fermentation going are the best options. And of course being honest and accepting an 'eastern-counties' style cider for what it is and not trying to make an 'west-country' style cider (a painful lesson I learnt early on!).

 

I'd advise you to use a commercial ML culture. I haven't used one yet but I intend to experiment with one this year, after some pointers from Andrew.

 

Cheers, Ray. 

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Ray B

[Alasdair Keddie]

I'm contemplating adding Calcium Carbonate to an early batch of particularly acidic cider.   What kind of effect does it have on flavour?  Is it ok to add it after the primary fermentation?

[Raymond Blockley]

Needs adding pre-fermentation if you are to lose as much of the off-flavour as possible. Work out using a measured sample how much you'll need to add to the bulk. Don't add it after fermentation.

 

Ray.

[Andrew Lea]

On 01/09/2011 10:26, Raymond Blockley wrote:
>
> I'd advise you to use a commercial ML culture. I haven't used one yet
> but I intend to experiment with one this year, after some pointers from
> Andrew.
>

Obviously I agree with Ray! Also I would say, if you do go the chemical
route of acid reduction, you will do far better using potassium
carbonate rather than calcium. The acid reduction issue is specifically
covered in my book (haven't plugged it for a while ;-) )

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Dries Muylaert]

Can be used, and I used it, but I wouldn't do it again, for several reasons. There are indeed some good alternatives:

- malolactic

- acid reducing yeasts

- mix the press cake with water, macerate overnight and repress, using that juice to cut juice of the first pressing, that is a method used in Western Flanders and France

- blend in juice of bittersweet or sweet apples

 

 

2011/9/1 Oddball <pc...@hotmail.com>

[Dibbs]

There's also the option of using Lalvin 71B yeast which was mentioned
here a while ago. It reduces the malic acid by 20%-30%. Somebody
(Claude J?) actually tested it and it really does do what it claims.

http://www.lalvinyeast.com/images/library/71B_Yeast.pdf

I notice that it also produces Isoamyl acetate, a substance that
wikipedia claims smells like juicy fruit chewing gum. I noticed notes
like that in the one batch I made using wild yeast last year but only
when it was young. It seemed to go away as it aged.

> Ray B- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Dibbs wrote:
> There's also the option of using Lalvin 71B yeast which was mentioned
> here a while ago.  It reduces the malic acid by 20%-30%.  Somebody
> (Claude J?) actually tested it and it really does do what it claims.

Yes I did this side-by-side test in 2009 and did measure a reduction
of titrable acidity. I didn't use 71b in 2010 because the acidity
level in my juices were lower than usual and I didn't want to reduce
it further. If acidity is more normal this year, I intend to do some
more testing with 71b.
Claude

[Alexander Peckham]

I would advise against use of calcium carbonate to reduce acidity. I
added some to batch of low ph juice this year and could not detect a
taste effect until after fermentation. The cider now has a shertaty
fizz on the tounge.

I have found that the initial harshness of acidity diminishes over
time. This is a taste effect as titratable acid levels indicate no
malolactic fermentation. Does anyone know why this mellowing occurs?

[CiderHead]

I also did some testing using Lalvin 71B and Gervin #10. Both did what
it said on the packet and reduced acidity by about 30%.

We had a discussion about this not so long ago where I pondered
whether I could do a combined fermentation, natural to start with then
adding Lalvin 71B or Gervin #10. There seemed to be no definitive
answer but the new cider pressing season is fast approaching and I may
give it a go.

> On Sep 1, 11:39 am, Andrew Lea <y...@cider.org.uk> wrote:
>if you do go the chemical route of acid reduction, you will do far better using potassium carbonate

Last year I used potassium carbonate but, even though I work in a home
brew shop, it's offputtingly expensive. Andrew gave me a link to a
potential supplier (mistralni) and I have contatced them. Currently
they don't sell "food grade" potassium carbonate, only potassium
hytrogen carbonate (only half as affective). After a discussion with
them, they said they'd have a look a getting food-grade potassium
carbonate in stock. The only problem they have is that they have to
buy one tonne at a time! Anyway, if they do decide to get it in, I'll
let you all know.

Cheers,

Martin

[greg l.]

I notice that it also produces Isoamyl acetate, a substance that
> wikipedia claims smells like juicy fruit chewing gum.  I noticed notes
> like that in the one batch I made using wild yeast last year but only
> when it was young.  It seemed to go away as it aged.

I posted about a bubblegum flavour to my cider this year, as you say
it disappeared with time. I ferment fairly warm and wondered if that
might cause it, I use EC1118 yeast. Thanks for providing the
explanation of the ester involved. I see it is also described as pear
drop which I have seen referred to on this forum, maybe that is why I
didn't get an explanation originally, I have no idea what pear drops
are.

Greg

[Tim]

Pear drops are hard boiled sweets Greg, they are supposed to taste of Pears
but are to me quite strongly "Chemical". ;)

Tim in Dorset