first cider ! Clearing ?

[Dries Laleman]

First a short introduction ! Me and my girfriend are trying to make a fresh sparkling Cider ! We are complete newbe's on brewing, this would be our first attempt 

We live in belgium and my girlfriends parents are apple and pear cultivators ! So we have a big supply of the main ingredient!

The person who is going to help us with the pressing is quite experienced in making wine etc ... 

He advised us to Clear the juice (with bentonite) wright after the pressing, before fermentation ? 

Now this is nowhere mentiond in any of the cider making books I bought. They always talk about fining at the end ? 

What are your idea's on clearing the juice at the start ?

[Andrew Lea]

On 05/11/2013 10:51, Dries Laleman wrote:
>
>
> He advised us to Clear the juice (with bentonite) wright after the
> pressing, before fermentation ?
>
> Now this is nowhere mentiond in any of the cider making books I bought.
> They always talk about fining at the end ?

It is I think pretty standard practice to add bentonite to white grape
juice, but not to apple juice, before fermentation. The purpose of the
bentonite is to remove soluble protein which will precipitate as the
alcohol level rises and can form hazes which are difficult to clear
later. This can be a problem with grapes but not with apples, since
apples contain only about one-tenth the soluble protein of grapes. Hence
bentonite before cider fermentation is not generally needed.

The only people I know who might add bentonite to apple juice before
cider making are people using re-diluted clarified apple juice
concentrate. In this case the bentonite is added to provide solid
surfaces on which the yeast cells can rest and liberate their alcohol
and CO2. Otherwise there is a danger of yeast 'auto-toxicity' and
sticking fermentations. But this has nothing to do with protein removal.

Andrew


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[Claude Jolicoeur]

Dries,
Yes, it can be done, but this is not standard procedure among small-scale and hobbyist cider makers.
Usually, what we do is simply to add a pectic enzyme prior to fermentation to help for later clearing.

Pre-fermentation clarification may be obtained by keeving,
And also may be obtained by debourbage: pectic enzyme addition and fining / racking prior to yeast inoculation. However, I have been told bentonite could prevent the enzyme from working - I did test this this year, with bentonite fining on one batch, and with gelatin fining on the other. The juice wasn't perfectly clear however in either case.
Claude Jolicoeur

[Max Nowell]

Those replies are from true experts, but seem a bit technical to me.  I'd just press the fruit, put the juice into air-tight fermentation vessels, with air-locks and leave it to do its stuff.  You can add yeast if you like, or leave it to natural yeasts to develop.  Given time, the cider will, probably, clear well enough without any intervention. Keep it simple for your first cider-making experience, and refine your techniques next year.

[Ray Blockley]

Oh dear. I've been using Bentonite for the past 40+ years for winemaking. I suppose there's no hope for me now :(
But then as apple pips are toxic & some invariably get chopped up & squished in my cider too I suppose I'm doubly damned...
Ooh and alcohol is a toxin and known carcinogen too... We're all doomed.

Ray

On 6 Nov 2013 15:04, "sean" <sga...@hurontel.on.ca> wrote:

Bentonite in its powder form is a carcinogen used in clumping  kitty litter found to cause lung cancer in cats do you want to put it in something your going to drink ?

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[richard marlborough]

hi

bentonite & other related substances are not funny. tens of thousands of people die an excruciating death each year from these chemicals that the canadian goverment for one says are completely safe.

ask my father in law............ oh no you can't, he's dead

:(

[Ray Blockley]

Who's finding it funny? It's all about context & levels of risk.

Ray.

[Dries Muylaert]

Possible. But you shouldn't inhale it. And when you put it in the most the basic idea is that it sinks and that it is removed. Many things that are added to food are harmful when used the wrong way.

2013/11/6 sean <sga...@hurontel.on.ca>

Bentonite in its powder form is a carcinogen used in clumping  kitty litter found to cause lung cancer in cats do you want to put it in something your going to drink ?

On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 4:51:38 AM UTC-6, Dries Laleman wrote:

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