Anise/Minty taste to cider

[Nick MacLean]

Hi everyone,

I'm tasting some of last years cider from my homegrown apples, and there is a very interesting "minty fruity" taste to it. It is somewhat reminiscent of methyl salicylate, and I can only describe it as generic "minty" or "menthol" fruity type flavor. This is completely new to me in cider - has anyone run across this before? Interestingly, its not in any of the commercial fruit juice I fermented.

Nick

[Gloria Bell]

Many Cox crosses come through with an anise flavour and a few other heritage apples have been described as so.  Did you use any of these apples?  The riper they become , the more it's present too.  Just a thought

[Brian Drake]

I’m trying to imagine ... is it a positive or a negative ?  Maybe too much of any good thing can be a distraction (or worse?)

Brian 

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[Nick M]

Its an odd flavor to try and describe. Years ago I made Ethyl Benzoate in a chem lab, and that's what it reminds me of - a cross of "fruity" and "minty" - Anise is pretty close. At the level in my cider its not "bad" but certainly surprising! I can't remember the exact apples in this blend, but it was a mix of my early/mid season apples which included Major, Hyslop Crab, Reine Des Pommes, Domaine, Dolgo, and some Roxbury Russet. Interestingly, I'm also picking it up in this years early season blend which hasn't finished fermenting.  Both of these were also wild ferments with no sulfites. I'm curious to see how it shoes itself once I bottle/keg this batch. I'll definitely keep an eye on it with this years batches as well, it is certainly a new cider flavor to me!

Nick 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 10:00:26 PM UTC-4 dra...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m trying to imagine ... is it a positive or a negative ?  Maybe too much of any good thing can be a distraction (or worse?)

Brian 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:

Many Cox crosses come through with an anise flavour and a few other heritage apples have been described as so.  Did you use any of these apples?  The riper they become , the more it's present too.  Just a thought

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:01:41 PM UTC-7 Nick M wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm tasting some of last years cider from my homegrown apples, and there is a very interesting "minty fruity" taste to it. It is somewhat reminiscent of methyl salicylate, and I can only describe it as generic "minty" or "menthol" fruity type flavor. This is completely new to me in cider - has anyone run across this before? Interestingly, its not in any of the commercial fruit juice I fermented.

Nick

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[Andrew Lea]

Another vote here for anise (anethole, 4 methoxyallylbenzene). https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jsfa.2740280213  

This is an important contributor to the aroma of many apples. I have not specifically noted it in UK cider apples but it is noticeable in fully ripened Cox and many others. In Ellison’s Orange (which I grow for dessert use) it can be overwhelming. It is a pretty stable compound so I would imagine it could easily come through unchanged into ciders if it is prominent in the original fruit.   My recollection is that it is also present in glycosidic form in the original fruit so could be liberated by glucosidase action during fermentation if an appropriate yeast is being used.

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 20 Oct 2021, at 02:16, Gloria Bell <glo...@islandexpressionsphoto.com> wrote:

Many Cox crosses come through with an anise flavour and a few other heritage apples have been described as so.  Did you use any of these apples?  The riper they become , the more it's present too.  Just a thought

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[Nick MacLean]

Thanks Andrew,

Anethole is making more sense to me. I don't recall tasting it earlier in the year when I sampled the same cider. So, if the majority of it was bound as a glycoside it would make sense that it would be liberated after the bulk of fermentation by some wild yeasts. 

Nick

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