Best way to extract the most tannin fron the apples

[Giulio Pini]

Hi everybody!

I was wondering if any of you ever tried to "copy" the way red wines are made by letting the freshly crushed pomace sit in some kind of big storage, or even pressing the pomace and then putting it back on top of the dry pulp and let it start fermentation that way in order to extract the most color and tannin possible. Any other ideas to get those tannins out of the fruit? Thank you!

[Bartek Knapek]

For apples, most of the "tannins" are in the apple flesh, then peels, then seeds. Unlike grapes where greatest contribution comes from skins and seeds.

Prolonged maceration is not the right way - tannins are quickly "lost" due to oxidation:

    (figure comes from Lea/Drilleau "Cidermaking")

One way of increasing the extracion of tannins is to heat the pulp before pressing:

• Microwave heating of apple mash to improve juice yield and quality
  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...3803002172
  "apple mashes were heated to bulk temperatures of 40°C, 50°C, 60°C and 70°C in a 2450 MHz microwave oven at 1500 W. Juice yield increased when mash was heated before pressing. Cider produced from the heated mashes had comparable pH, titratable acidity, and sensory characteristics to cider produced from room temperature mashes; however, total phenolic and flavonoid content of the juice increased with increasing mash temperature. Soluble solids and turbidity also increased as treatment temperature increased"

Adding peels to fermentation also seems to give an interesting results (have not tasted yet though):

But that is not really feasible on a larger scale..

// Bartek

On 23/02/2024 3:20 pm, Giulio Pini wrote:

Hi everybody!

I was wondering if any of you ever tried to "copy" the way red wines are made by letting the freshly crushed pomace sit in some kind of big storage, or even pressing the pomace and then putting it back on top of the dry pulp and let it start fermentation that way in order to extract the most color and tannin possible. Any other ideas to get those tannins out of the fruit? Thank you!

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[Claude Jolicoeur]

One way is to have multiple freeze-thaw cycles. Freezing breaks the skin cells, then during a thaw, the phenolic compounds can migrate to the juice.

There is a style of cider that I make and call "Winter Cider", a little cousin to ice cider, but without the licorous side, being much less sweet, and also made from much less concentrated must. To make this cider, in late fall I leave the apples in an unheated shed where they slowly freeze as the cold sets in beginning of winter. There are also a number of freeze-thaw cycles. During winter I press these apples when they are partially thawed to get a must at around 1.075-85 SG and ferment this. This must does pick quite a bit of the phenolic compounds from the skin, and the flavor profile is completely changed.

I wrote an article in the Malus Zine last year about this. See https://drive.google.com/file/d/15HFs2TvGbEf58nrCpT4OLwGyTCSbygzS/view?usp=drive_link

[AW]

I reckon some tannin will migrate in two directions, (i) from pulp to juice due to extraction and (ii) from juice to pulp due to "tanning".  

The pulp can be regarded as a counterproductive tannin sponge.  

Incubating in the absence of air seems like the only hope for this to work.  

[terryc...@gmail.com]

Following a suggestion from a book "The Art and Science of Cider", on fermenting cider on extra apple peel, I did a comparison of with and without. I had a surplus of Red Delicious Apples that don't normally make an exciting single variety cider. There was a marked difference between the plain Red Delicious and the Red Delicious with extra skins added. Primarily the difference seemed to be tannin which made something "ordinary" into something "worthwhile".