Tree Order Decisions- Anyone recognize these names?

[Matthew Moser Miller]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of ordering some trees from a nursery in New York-- they have a quite impressive list of antique and cider varieties that they can custom graft, including all of the touted varieties (Dabinett, Harrison, Hewe's, Harry Masters, Yarlington, etc). There are also a number of them that I've never even heard of, and haven't been able to find a description of (or really even much record of) in all the books I've looked through or on the internet. I've tried getting in touch with them, but the Amish seem to take a while returning calls and I'd like to know as much as I can before sending my order in. I'm happy to hear anything people have to tell me, from literature or experience; they're for planting in Ohio, and I'll include what little info, if any, I have for each variety.

Lyman Prolific: found mention of it in some Minnesota ag journals from the early 1900s; seems to be a small, cold-hardy crab? Nothing on flavor or bearing

Goulsby Cider: no info. May also be spelled "Goolsby"

Twisbody Jersey: absolutely no record that I've found. Presumably a Jersey-style bittersweet, but that's just a guess.

Sherrington Norman: mentioned in Proulx & Nichols as a bittersweet, but haven't been able to find much else

Souvenier: I've found reference to several varieties that include (often "Souvenir") in the name, but couldn't find much about any of that habits. I'm assuming this is a French cider apple, but I'd appreciate any further info on any variety with this name.

Thanks so much for any help! I really appreciate it.

Matt

[Headelf]

Matthew

You might want to also look at St Lawrence Nursery near Potsdam, NY. Young man took over for Bill who recently retired. Some interesting trees including their Kola Crab. 

Slainte Mhath

Tom Frey

ADK Hard Cider

Plattsburgh, NY

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[Dick Dunn]

On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 07:59:54AM -0700, Matthew Moser Miller wrote:
(looking for info on cider varieties...here's note on one...)

> Twisbody Jersey: absolutely no record that I've found. Presumably a
> Jersey-style bittersweet, but that's just a guess.

Twistbody Jersey.
Andrew's web site has a table originally from the NYSAES at Geneva, NY, in
which the results for Twistbody Jersey show
Brix 10.0
Acid 0.12%
pH 4.24
Tannin 0.058%
So it's in the range between sweet and mild bittersweet. (See Andrew's
notes accompanying, where he takes up the matter of tannin measurements
in the table being rather lower than would be expected.)
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Andrew Lea]

On 16/07/2016 15:59, Matthew Moser Miller wrote:


> Sherrington Norman: mentioned in Proulx & Nichols as a bittersweet, but
> haven't been able to find much else

Fruit: Size medium, sometimes small. Shape cylindrical, tending to
round, slight ribbing; tendency to be irregular. Stem projecting
distinctly, thin, sometimes thick, woody, rarely fleshy. Stem basin
present, medium, narrow. Eye basin present, large, shallow, sometimes
deep, slightly puckered; tendency to be irregular. Calyx open or
slightly open; sepals touching, very long, reflexed. Skin smooth, waxy,
yellow or greenish-yellow; flush present, rarely absent, covering
one-third to two-thirds, sometimes less than one-third or very slight,
usually diffuse, flecked and slightly striped, red or pink-orange,
sometimes orange-yellow; russet confined to stem basin, usually slight,
rarely round eye; lenticels conspicuous or partly so, variable; scab:
very susceptible. Tube conical, usually deep; stamens median. Core
median, sometimes slightly proximal; axile; loculi open; loculi round or
elliptical; pattern of cracks sometimes present on loculi walls; seeds
few, brown, pointed. Flesh white, slightly crisp; slightly juicy; sweet
with medium astringency. Harvest 3rd-4th week October; milling period of
more than three weeks.
Juice: Specific gravity 1.051; acidity 0.27; tannin 0.33.
Cider: Medium bittersweet.
Flowering: Early; triploid, little use as a pollinator.
Notes: This variety was imported from France at the beginning of the
20th century by H. P. Bulmer and Co. Ltd. and is now widely grown in the
West Midlands. It has taken its English name from the farm where it was
first extensively planted. It is a good cropper and is similar in
appearance to Bulmer’s Norman. Although it is more susceptible to scab
than Bulmer’s Norman, this is a very useful variety, and makes a good
strong tree. However, the drooping habit is a disadvantage in orchards
grazed by cattle.

(Source: LARS Ann Rept 1962)

Andrew

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near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[ronb...@gmail.com]

Hope I don't get in trouble here for mentioning another source in New York.

I would highly recommend Cummin's Nursery in New York.   I have bought cider trees from them in the years past and they very very knowledgeable and will be able to answer all of your questions promptly.

Good Luck.

Ron B

[Matthew Moser Miller]

Dick, Andrew: thanks so much for your help; that was just the sort of information I was after, and I hadn't figured out where to find it. Those two and the Goulsby Cider were the ones I was most curious about.

Tom, Ron: I appreciate the nursery recs! I hadn't heard of St. Lawrence before, so I'll check into their listing. The place I'm looking to buy from at the moment is Schlabach's- an Amish outfit with a really great list of custom-graft cider apples whose scion and graft quality came highly recommended by a nurseryman friend (but obviously, no internet presence and limited phone contact as Amish). Ron, I'd second you for the Cummins recommendation; I've gotten trees from them the past two years (and probably will again this year), and they've been very helpful. It's just a matter of cost-- for the number of trees I'm looking to buy (60-70), $25 apiece at Cummins is a bit too dear (especially since Schlabach's has a farm list price for custom grafts for less than half that). I'll probably buy some more from Cummins and/or Fedco this year, anyway, since the order of 60-70 won't be ready and shipped to me till spring 2018.

Cheers,

Matt

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