Botulism worries: Wild fermentation from apples off the ground.

[Dave D]

Last year I was driving past an orchard late in the season and they were advertising ALL REMAINING APPLES FREE.  Basically, whatever you can carry is yours.  I had some bushels in the car and filled about 7 of them.  

Most of the apples came off the ground, very recently fallen.  Obviously I didn't take any that were rotting but some had bruises and maybe small "open sores."  I brought them home and washed them.  Maybe I even washed them twice.  Then I pressed them.  I DID NOT sulphite the juice.  I was away for a week or so and when I returned natural fermentation had set in 

Do I have to be worried about Botulism?  I know clostridium botulinum is a soil-borne bacteria.  I know that the toxin requires an anaerobic environment to develop.  I also know that a certain acidity and alcohol level will destroy the bacteria before it can create the toxin.  Will the process of fermentation ward off the bacteria early enough?  Is the onset time of fermentation enough to allow the toxin to develop?  I had to add malic acid to the juice because it wasnt acidic enough.

I'm pretty certain I'm in the clear, but I'm hesitant to risk sharing it with others until I'm sure its safe.  

Any input is appreciated!

dave

[Trevor FitzJohn]

Legally I would be worried more about E Coli from sheep. Was the orchard grazed by sheep recently. In UK sheep need to be out of orchard for 6 weeks before harvest. E Coli can be tested for in an enviromental lab. Wide spectrum of varients, most harmless but some not. However I test mine and note it has never survived a good fermentation.

Trevor FitzJohn
Chairman : Pacific Radiology Ltd
99 Rintoul Street : Newtown : Wellington 6021
PO Box 7168 : Wellington 6242 : New Zealand
Cell + 64 21 483 959
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[Andrew Lea]

On 08/10/2014 03:17, Dave D wrote:

> I'm pretty certain I'm in the clear, but I'm hesitant to risk sharing it
> with others until I'm sure its safe.

I would refer you to this reassuring review
www.drpflug.com/PDFs/Odlaug_Pflug_1978.pdf

He says "If the pH of the substrate is below 4.6 then there will be no
botulism hazard". I can't believe any apples get up to pH 4.6.

As Trevor says, E. coli (especially the 0157H type) is more likely to be
a hazard, because it will grow at apple juice pH. But all the data
shows that this is destroyed by fermentation e.g.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iafp/jfp/1996/00000059/00000012/art00001

Andrew

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near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Dave D]

Haha,

I wish I lived in a place where sheep graze in the orchards.  Southern Ontario ain't what it used to be though, for better or worse.  

Thanks for the tips on E coli.

dave

[Pegasus]

Hi Dave,

as you say C.botulinum is an anaerobe. In fact it's what's known as a strict anaerobe. It produces its toxin in  the absence of O2. It is practically impossible for it to produce the toxin in apples, fruit, etc. It's most likely to occur in home canning of meat  that has not been properly conducted.  The last major indigenous case in UK was about 100 years ago (home produced canned meat). The only other risks are for babies under 6 months and honey and, v rarely, wound infections - usually in injecting drug users.

As others have said, I'd be more concerned about enteric pathogens - esp EC0157. Although it may not survive fermentation  a good wash to reduce bacterial load is definitely a must.

Paul