hen's turds

[John Barnes]

Here's a question you don't ask everyday - does anyone know what a Hens' Turd tastes like?

It's a traditional Gloucestershire cider apple variety and I have been offered some to help plant a new cider orchard buy cant find any reference to flavour. Bittersharp, sharp etc etc.

If anyone has ever eaten a hen's turd, or even better made cider from it, I would love to hear any opinions!!

Thanks

John

[Andrew Lea]

On 19/01/2011 13:12, John Barnes wrote:
> Here's a question you don't ask everyday - does anyone know what a
> Hens' Turd tastes like?

> It's a traditional Gloucestershire cider apple variety and I have
> been offered some to help plant a new cider orchard buy cant find any
> reference to flavour. Bittersharp, sharp etc etc.

According to Charles Martell's wonderful online book
http://www.gloucestershireorchardgroup.org.uk/native_apples_of_gloucestershire.pdf
it is acid and slightly astringent. Hence a Bittersharp.

It is not in the Marcher Apple Network CD. BTW there is an old acid
variety known as Cockagee which is supposed to have come from Ireland
and the name is allegedly Gaelic for "goose turd". Don't know if any of
our Irish subscribers can confirm this?

Andrew

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[NEIL PHILLIPS]

does anyone know what a Hens' Turd tastes like ?

This is why I love the weird and wonderful world of cider making !

 

It made me laugh out loud in our local Library!! (not a very cool place to hang out I know)
 

Neil

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From: John Barnes <jo...@theorchardpress.co.uk>
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 19 January, 2011 13:12:10
Subject: [Cider Workshop] hen's turds

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[David Llewellyn]

You could have great fun designing and writing a label for a single variety cider from this one!

 

David Llewellyn

T: +353-087-2843879

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[Jez Howat]

My family are starting to organise my 40^th birthday party and have come up with the theme of ‘apples’... wonder where they got that from! They also want to make it fancy dress based on the theme... so not at least I know what I am going as!

 

It was going to be a ‘slap ma girdle’ (no one but us saddo’s know its ‘slack’, so I reckoned on getting away with that:-) but I like this more fragrant sounding variety!!!

 

All the best

 

Jez

 

PS – Could have been worse – I had an interesting idea based on ‘Hangy Down’!

[Tim]

Is this a cider related post Jez? You will get in trouble mate and then it will be Hangy Down. J

 

Tim.

--

[JezH]

I am always on topic:-)

[Nick Bradstock]

Better than your a**e or your elbow I suppose...
(Meant kindly! - and perhaps even humourously)
Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JezH
Sent: 19 January 2011 16:51
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] hen's turds

--

[pauls...@lineone.net]

At the risk of being totally OCD shouldn't we aim for consistency. It
should either be Hen's turd, Hen's turd or Hens' turds. With these
matters consistency is surely everything. You can't have consistent
Hens' turd. I am somewhat of an expert in these matters as I have to
cleans ours out every other week.

Paul !!!:)

>----Original Message----

>From: jo...@theorchardpress.co.uk

>Date: 19/01/2011 13:12

>To: <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>

>Subj: [Cider Workshop] hen&#39;s turds

>

>

>

>

>Thanks

>

>John

>

>

>

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[Mark Jenkinson]

On Jan 19, 1:33 pm, Andrew Lea <y...@cider.org.uk> wrote:

> It is not in the Marcher Apple Network CD. BTW there is an old acid
> variety known as Cockagee which is supposed to have come from Ireland
> and the name is allegedly Gaelic for "goose turd".  Don't know if any of
> our Irish subscribers can confirm this?
>
> Andrew

Yes indeed, there is (or was) a one time famous Irish Cider apple
variety called Cockagee also variously referred to as
Coccagee,Cakagee, Cacagee,Cagogee etc. which I have been doing some
research on over the last few years.

It seems to have been a very highly esteemed single varietal with the
drink made from it actually referred to and called Cockagee to
differentiate it from ordinary cider. There are quite a few references
to it from the 18th and 19th centuries mainly from English
commentators travelling in Ireland at the time.

Goose turd or dung is correct although as we Irish like to call a
spade a spade, Goose sh*t might be a closer translation !
Cac is Irish for turd and Ge for goose, it was supposedly called this
because of the greenish cast/colour of the cider.

It was said to have been first brought to England in 1700 and another
reference says it was brought to Somerset in the 18thC. another
English reference refers to it as "Cocko-Gee meaning Goose dung" I
think you can see here how this name/translation (Cocko/dung) over
time could have morphed into Hens Turd, giving the intriguing
possibility that the Hens Turd variety might be the lost Cockagee ! as
such I would be very grateful for any information on this variety as
it may help fill a gap in the known Irish apple varieties.

Last year the orchard manager from The Irish Seedsavers (Irish
equivalent of Brogdale) was kind enough to give me scion wood from the
remaining Irish cider varieties (less than a dozen) including cockagee
from a tree in Co.Clare, although for various reasons there are
serious doubts that this is the original Cockagee. It was sent to
Brogdale (who have references for Cockagee) but they could not
positivly ID it and officially I think it is considered lost.

A colour plate of it appears in Pomona Britanica by Brookshaw and it
is shown as a medium sized conical yellow apple with some red stripes.

Some References.

Letters of Lord Chief Baron Edward Willes to the Earl of Warwick 1761
"The cyder of this country is I think in general equal to the
Devonshire cyder, and that made from the Cagogee apple is the finest
liquor I ever drank. It has the strength of the Stire without its very
disagreeable roughness"

Arthur Young - A Tour of Ireland 1776-1779
"This country is famous for cyder-orchards, the cakagee especially,
which is incompararably fine. An acre of trees yeilds from four to ten
hogsheads per annum, average size, and what is very uncommon in the
cyder counties of England, yeilds a crop every year."


Any help much appreciated
Mark.

[newparkho...@eircom.net]

Hi Mark,

It was a cutting from my orchard, Newpark House, Ennis, Co. Clare ( www.newparkhouse.com ), that Irish Seedsavers took. I had seen that on the 1840 O.S. map, of Newpark, there was an orchard of about 4 acres. I too had read Arthur Young who claimed that the Cockagee cider in Clare was common and of a very high quality. I tried to identify the apple and realizing it could be a cider apple I contacted Seed Savers and they too had trouble identifying it.

I believe there is a cider brewery somewhere in England claiming to be using the Cockagee. I would love to compere them.

I recently bought a cider press and even though the apple numbers are way down this year I am going to try a test batch. I did see an old cider recipe on google books but I don't remember where.

Declan

[Mark Jenkinson]

Hi John/Declan

John, yes, I have eaten a Hens Turd........not many people would say that out loud ! a cousin of mine brought some scions over here to Ireland from UK a few years ago and I got the first apples off the grafts last year. As Andrew said, they are bittersharps with a cider apple texture, acid and tannins but I have no idea yet what a cider would turn out like, at a guess they might need blending with a more astringent cider apple.

Declan, that last post was a copy and paste by Andrew of an old post of mine from a few years ago. Nice to meet you, and great to find out where the trees came from. Seedsavers refer to your tree as Barrons Coccagee I think to differentiate it because it did not come back from Brogdale with a positive ID. Matteo from seedsavers made a single variety cider from it last year and I was lucky enough to get to taste it at the cider festival at The Apple Farm last September, it was perfectly drinkable but just a bit thin and acidic. Have you any other potential contenders in your orchards ?

Mark.