Re: [ChurchillChat] The Churchill Documents and Future Projects

[Sandy Finlayson]

Dear Richard,

Thank you for the update. It's great to hear how the work is progressing. So many people have had a hand in this and I'm very grateful for all your work. 

Hearing about future publications is also very exciting, although my wife may not be as happy to hear that more Churchill volumes will be on their way in the future! 

Thank you again for the update.

SF

--------------------------------------------
Mr. Sandy Finlayson
Director of Library Services &
Professor of Theological Bibliography
Westminster Theological Seminary 
Philadelphia, PA

"Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers.

A librarian can bring you back the right one.

~ Neil Gaiman

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 12:33 PM Richard Langworth <ric...@langworth.name> wrote:

THE END IS NIGH!

Sandy Finlayson writes: "Is there any news on when the next Churchill Documents volume will be released?"

The printer expects to ship Volume 22 ("The Opposition Years," August 1945-October 1951) in July. Let's say availability by September. The final Volume 23 ("Never Flinch, Never Weary," November 1951-January 1965) will appear in the autumn. Like previous volumes, each will sell for only $60, well under cost, but commercial considerations are not the priority. All volumes to date are available from Hillsdale College Bookstore.

Both volumes, well over 2500 pages, use a special paper designed to be thin enough to bind, but not so thin as to cause "bleed-through" from print on the other side.

Late last March, all of us proofreaders, kibitzers and editors read the final document (Lady Churchill to Prime Minister Harold Wilson, 9 February 1965), and suddenly realized: IT'S OVER. The longest biography on the planet, 15 million words, has ended, 57 years after Randolph Churchill set to work. If he were here, I said on the recent Hillsdale Cruise, he would probably say, "What took you so long?" 

Well, what took so long was that Martin Gilbert found one huge pile of stuff. There is a "wodge" of documents virtually for every day of Churchill's life. We had a gala banquet in London to celebrate Randolph, Martin, Dr. Larry Arnn and the Great Work, attended by all who had a hand in it. Among them was Lady Gilbert (Esther), who spoke eloquently of Martin, whose memory we cherish across the years. Her remarks and others will be up on winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu shortly. It was a moment.

Now this is not the end, or even the beginning of the end. Plans are afoot for further works, including a new edition of the Collected Essays—expanded from the original four volumes to many more, thanks to new material in the Ronald Cohen collection and the Gilbert Papers, now acquired by Hillsdale. Some of it represents an "unknown canon" of obscure Churchill works, not seen since first publication. Like the OB, there will be electronic as well as print editions, and an expanded online facility to ease research for students and scholars.

If anyone would like to help support this great work, and have their name on the wall in our new Archives Atrium, please contact me at rlang...@hillsdale.edu.

Richard M. Langworth CBE
Senior Fellow, Hillsdale College

 Churchill Project

winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu

richardlangworth.com 

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[Peter D. Wrobel]

Speaking of long term projects, does anyone have an update on when the new edition of The River War is expected?  Thanks. 

Peter Wrobel. 

Sent from my iPhone XS Max

[Bob Allen]

I have a question for anyone in the group who can help. I have the entire 8-volume biography. It is from several publishers, so it is in various forms, from hard- to paperback. That's okay with me since I am not a collector, just an avid reader of the jolly old gent. As long as I have to entire content, I am happy. I also have the companion volumes for bio vols. 1-3. The problem I am having is with the remainder. I know that many are available from Hillsdale, but the descriptions don't match this from the original bio companions. I also know that I cannot afford the WWII companions as I have searched for these and have not found them in my price range (being a retired public school teacher). I can, however quite well afford the Hillsdale editions. But that is where the confusion over their arrangement and descriptions begin to confuse me. Can someone help me so I can once again sleep at night rather than lying there in a muddled state? My thanks would be profound.

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[David Freeman]

Bob,

Hillsdale has reprinted the ENTIRE official biography both narrative and companion volumes that were already available before Hillsdale took over publishing the remaining companion volumes.

So use the affordable Hillsdale volumes to fill in any and all gaps in your collection.

David Freeman

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[Antoine Capet]

Dear Bob,

I believe you can use the following "concordance" :

Companions to OB 1-3 = Hillsdale Churchill Documents 1-7
Companions to OB 4-5 = Hillsdale Churchill Documents 8-13
Churchill War Papers (for vol. 6 of the OB) = Hillsdale Churchill Documents
14-16
New : Hillsdale Churchill Documents 17-21 = for vol. 7 of the OB
New : Hillsdale Churchill Documents 22-23 = for vol. 8 of the OB

So, you need to acquire The Churchill Documents 8-23 to have a complete set.

With all best wishes,

Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Professor emeritus of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
antoin...@univ-rouen.fr

'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography

Reviews Editor of CERCLES
http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html
==========================================

for further works, including a new edition of the Collected Essays???expanded

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[Cita Stelzer]

This is SO useful for all of us!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/DC47DE5B76D64EBE97CB153F13041120%40PCAntoine.

[Richard Langworth]

Bob,

Prof. Capet's "concordance" is right, and you will need The Churchill Documents 8-23, and we are committed to keeping them in print forever. Rosetta (Amazon) offers e-book versions of the narrative volumes, and e-books of the Documents will be forthcoming. At the moment Hillsdale College Bookstore has Document Volumes 8-16 at $35 each and 17-21 at $60 each. Volumes 22-23 will follow by August and the end of the year respectively, also at $60. See: http://bookstore.hillsdale.edu/merchlist?ID=15446

These are under cost and much lower prices than the secondhand book market for first editions. (In my last years as a Churchill bookseller, Companions to Vol. 5 were making up to $1000 each). All Hillsdale volumes carry exactly the same pagination, so a page reference in any edition is always uniform. We are committed to keeping inexpensive. Martin Gilbert did retitle most Companions to Vols. 1-4, to better reflect their subjects, and the three "War Papers" are now The Churchill Documents vols. 14-16; but the contents are identical.

Richard Langworth

Senior Fellow, Hillsdale College Churchill Project

 

winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu

richardlangworth.com 

[Bob Allen]

So many thanka!!!

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[Antoine Capet]

Dear All,

 

Our recent discussion on the ‘Official Biography’ prompted me to tackle a job which I have had in mind for a long time.

 

Even though vols. 22 & 23 of The Churchill Documents will only appear later this year, I hope the compilation below will prove useful to List Members.

 

 

With all best wishes,

Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Professor emeritus of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
antoin...@univ-rouen.fr

'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography

https://www.lisez.com/livre-grand-format/churchill/9782262065355

==========================================

 

 

 

THE ‘OFFICIAL BIOGRAPHY’

WINSTON S. CHURCHILL

1966-2019

 

Volume I. Winston S. Churchill : Youth, 1874-1900, by Randolph S. Churchill.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1966.

xxxvi, 608 p., [32] p. of plates ; ill., facsims., maps, ports. ; index ; 24 cm.

[+Two ‘Companions’ infra]

 

Volume II. Winston S. Churchill : Young Statesman,1901-1914, by Randolph S. Churchill.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1967.

xxix, 775 p, [33] p. of plates ; ill., facsims., maps, ports. ; index; 24 cm.

[+Three ‘Companions’ infra]

 

Volume III. Winston S. Churchill : The Challenge of War, 1914-1916, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1971.

xxxvii, 988 p. [33] p. plates ; ill., facsims., maps, ports. ; index ; 24 cm

[+Two ‘Companions’ infra]

 

Volume IV. Winston S. Churchill : World in Torment, 1916-1922, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1975.

xvi, 967 p., [1] leaf of plate, [32] p. of plates ; ill., maps, ports ; index ;  24 cm.

[+Three ‘Companions’ infra]

 

Volume V. Winston S. Churchill : The Prophet of Truth, 1922-1939, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1976.

xxvii, 1167 p., [1] leaf of plates, [32] p. of plates ; ill., ports. ; index ; 24 cm.

[+Three ‘Companions’ infra]

 

Volume VI. Winston S. Churchill : Finest Hour, 1939-1941, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1983.

xx, 1308 p., [25] p. of plates ; ill., ports. ; index ; 24 cm.

[+Three ‘Churchill War Papers’ volumes infra]

 

Volume VII. Winston S. Churchill : Road to Victory, 1941-1945, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heineman (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1986.

xx, 1417p., [24] p. of plates ; ill., maps, ports. ; index ; 24 cm.

[+Five ‘Churchill Documents’ volumes infra]

 

Volume VIII. Winston S. Churchill : Never Despair, 1945-1965, by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1988.

xxvii, 1438 p, [24] p. of plates ; ill, maps, ports ; index ; 24 cm.

[+Two ‘Churchill Documents’ volumes infra]

 

NB 1: All these titles have been reissued with the same pagination by the Hillsdale College Press, Hillsdale (Michigan). Also available in electronic format.

 

 NB 2: The London : Minerva, 1989-1991 paperback reissues have been omitted.

 

 

 

COMPANIONS, WAR PAPERS & DOCUMENT VOLUMES

 

C The numbers in square brackets [N°x] refer to the full Hillsdale College Press The Churchill Documents reissues (with the same pagination) [N°1-16] or new volumes [N°17-21 + 22-23 (forthcoming)].

 

 

For Volume I (Two ‘Companions’) :

[N°1] Winston S. Churchill. Volume I : Companion. Part 1 : 1874-1896. (Edited) by Randolph S. Churchill. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1967.

xxi, 678 p. ; 24 cm.

[N°2] Winston S. Churchill. Volume I : Companion. Part 2 : 1896-1900. (Edited) by Randolph S. Churchill. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1967.

[6], 611 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume II (Three ‘Companions’) :

[N°3] Winston S. Churchill. Volume II : Companion. Part 1 : 1901-1907. (Edited) by Randolph S. Churchill. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1969.

xxix, 675 p. ; 24 cm.

[N°4] Winston S. Churchill. Volume II : Companion. Part 2 : 1907-1911. (Edited) by Randolph S. Churchill. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1969.

vii, 697 p. ; 24 cm.

[N°5] Winston S. Churchill. Volume II : Companion. Part 3 : 1911-1914. (Edited) by Randolph S. Churchill. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1969.

vii, 776 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume III (Two ‘Companions’) :

[N°6] Winston S. Churchill. Volume II : Companion. Part 1 : Documents, July 1914-April 1915. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1972.

xi, 838 p. ; 24 cm.

[N°7] Winston S. Churchill. Volume II : Companion. Part 1 : Documents, May 1915-December 1916. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1972.

vi, 847 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume IV (Three ‘Companions’) :

[N°8] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 1 : Documents, January 1917-June 1919. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1977.

xxiii, 720p ; maps ; 24 cm.

[N°9] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 2 : Documents, July 1919-March 1921. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heineman (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1977.

[5], 705 p ; maps ; 24 cm.

[N°10] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 3 : Documents, April 1921-November 1922. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1977.

[5], 738 p ; maps ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume V (Three ‘Companions’) :

[N°11] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 1 : Documents : The Exchequer Years, 1922-1929. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1979.

xxii, 1504 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°12] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 2 : Documents : The Wilderness Years, 1929-1935. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1981.

xviii, 1404 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°13] Winston S. Churchill. Volume IV : Companion. Part 3 : Documents : The Coming of War, 1936-1939. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. London : Heinemann (Boston : Houghton Mifflin), 1982.

xviii, 1404 p. ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume VI (Three ‘Churchill War Papers’ volumes) :

[N°14] The Churchill War Papers. Volume 1 : At the Admiralty, September 1939-May 1940. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (New York : W.W. Norton), 1993.

xx, 1370 p. ; 1 facsim., maps ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°15] The Churchill War Papers. Volume 2 : Never Surrender, May 1940-December 1940. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (New York : W.W. Norton), 1994.

xxxii, 1359 p. ; ill., facsims., maps ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°16] The Churchill War Papers. Volume 3 : The Ever-Widening War, 1941. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert.

London : Heinemann (New York : W.W. Norton), 2000.

lxiv, 1821 p. ; ill., maps ; index ; 24 cm.

 

For Volume VI (Five ‘Churchill Documents’ volumes) :

[N°17] The Churchill Documents. Volume 17 : Testing Times, 1942. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. Foreword by Larry P. Ann.

Hillsdale (Michigan) : Hillsdale College Press, 2014.

xxxii, 1652 p. ; maps; index ; 24 cm.

[N°18] The Churchill Documents. Volume 18 : One Continent Redeemed, January-August 1943. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert. Preface by Larry P. Ann.

Hillsdale (Michigan) : Hillsdale College Press, 2015.

xxii, 2471 p. ; facsims. ; maps ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°19] The Churchill Documents. Volume 19 : Fateful Questions, September 1943 to April 1944. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert and by Larry P. Ann. Preface by Larry P. Ann.

Hillsdale (Michigan) : Hillsdale College Press, 2017.

xxiii, 2728 p. ; maps ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°20] The Churchill Documents. Volume 20 : Normandy and Beyond, May-December 1944. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert and by Larry P. Ann. Preface by Larry P. Ann.

Hillsdale (Michigan) : Hillsdale College Press, 2018.

xxii, 2576 p. ; maps ; index ; 24 cm.

[N°21] The Churchill Documents. Volume 21 : The Shadows of Victory, January-July 1945. (Edited) by Martin Gilbert and by Larry P. Ann. Preface by Larry P. Ann.

Hillsdale (Michigan) : Hillsdale College Press, 2018.

xxx, 2149 p. ; maps ; index ; 24 cm.

 

To be published in 2019 :

[N°22] The Churchill Documents. Volume 22.

[N°23] The Churchill Documents. Volume 23.

_______

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[Cita Stelzer]

Thank you SO much, Antoine!
Cita

 

From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat <church...@googlegroups.com>

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[Todd Ronnei]

It should be noted that the original title of Volume IV was The Stricken World.

-Todd Ronnei

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[Bob Allen]

Bless you, my friend. This is of unlimited value to one trying to understand the sequence on learn more about the old gent.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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[Antoine Capet]

Dear -Todd ,

Thanks for this useful additional remark.

In fact, the first Heinemann editions had no subtitles for vols. III, IV & V
: only the dates.

A.C.

=======

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[Antoine Capet]

Dear All,

I am preparing an article on _Darkest Hour_ for a French publication and I
am puzzled by a character in the film.

There is a young man who is often seen near Churchill, and he initially
shows Miss Layton round the 'War Rooms', but he is not named – I thought he
was Jock Colville. But then, there is no ‘Jock Colville’ in the cast.

On the other hand, there is a ‘Tom Leonard’ in the cast whose name does not
suggest anything to me. ‘Tom Leonard’ is played by Eric MacLennan – but his
photographs on Google do not look like the young man I mistook for Jock
Colville.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4555426/fullcredits

All very puzzling! I wonder who that young man is supposed to be!

Enlightenment most welcome.

With best wishes to all,

Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Professor emeritus of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
antoin...@univ-rouen.fr

'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography

[Richard Langworth]

Dear Antoine,

There is no Tom or Thomas Leonard in our digital scans of the Churchill canon and papers. The figure escorting Miss Layton around the War Rooms is most likely a generic character, used to convey her duties.

Interestingly, Elizabeth Layton Nel does not mention the War Rooms once in her excellent 1958 book, Mr Churchill's Secretary (since reprinted), although she frequently mentions the Downing Street Annexe. It's quite likely that when she wrote, the existence of the War Rooms was still an official secret.

Downing Street Annexe was housed in the ground floor rooms facing St. James's Park to the right of the War Rooms public entrance today. It was considered much safer in an air raid than 10 Downing Street. Martin Gilbert always emphasized that it was the Annexe, not the "hole in the ground," where Churchill actually directed the war. He would always draw attention to the small filled-in square holes on each side of all the windows, where brackets for steel air raid shutters were once affixed. The War Rooms get all the attention today for their hubris; those ground floor offices are today very expensive real estate.

RL

Hillsdale College

 Churchill Project

winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu

[Jon Lellenberg]

Interesting.

Elizabeth Layton eventually wrote a memoir about her experience, published in 2007 as Winston Churchill by his Personal Secretary by Elizabeth Nel (her postwar married name).  When she first reported to No. 10 Downing Street on May 5, 1941,* she was shown around the premises where she'd be working (as the then-third of his Personal Secretaries), including the Cabinet War Room (she uses the singular, and usually calls it the C.W.R.), but relates it mostly in the passive case.  

* Wikipedia says: "She is portrayed in the 2017 British film Darkest Hour by Lily James where she is portrayed as starting to work as Churchill's secretary already one year earlier, in 1940. In the film, her brother was said to have died during the retreat to Dunkirk. This is fictional."

Assuming that someone from No. 10's Private Secretaries staff showed her around, including the C.W.R., she states that "There were six Private Secretaries, five men and one woman, who were Civil Servants, officially appointed" and additionally that "Four of the men, probably in their late twenties or early thirties, took turns at being actively on duty, usually two at a time."  Continuing a bit later:  "To be appointed Private Secretary to the Prime Minister was an honour which would surely lead to a distinguished career. Their work called for the highest degree of care and responsibility, and their first-rate education and high office combined to give them plenty of self-confidence. Coming from the backwoods of Canada I at first found these elevated gentlemen slightly alarming."

So it may have been one of them being depicted in the movie?

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[Dave Turrell]

Dear Antoine,

You can find the script for the film at https://www.scriptslug.com/assets/uploads/scripts/darkest-hour-2017.pdf

A quick search seems to indicate that the character in question is John Evans - Churchill's private secretary.  (Not sure if that's a 'real' character - I bet Richard knows :-).  Played by Joe Armstrong.

the TRAY passes by - WINSTON’s PRIVATE SECRETARY, JOHN EVANS (35), as he schools the NEW YOUNG SECRETARY, ELIZABETH LAYTON. Evans, an immaculately-groomed rake, snobbishly thinks himself infinitely superior to the Elizabeth Laytons of the world.

JOHN EVANS(to ELIZABETH)...and if he stretches out his hand and says, “Gimme”, you need to anticipate what he wants -  black pen, red pen, paper, or “Clop”, that’s his hole punch.

Best,

Dave

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From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat [mailto:church...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 5:59 AM
To: church...@googlegroups.com

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[Richard Langworth]

The 2007 book is a reprint of the 1958 book. I muddied the waters by saying the "War Rooms" are not in Elizabeth Layton Nel's text, by searching for "War Rooms" plural. She does indeed mention them as Jon says, first on page 26 of the first edition:

For below [the Annexe] there stretched two whole floors of "safety" accommodation. Beneath a vast concrete block which had been set in at ground level there was first of all General Headquarters, known as the Cabinet War Room or C.W.R., where the Prime Minister, all Cabinet Ministers and the Chiefs of Staff had rooms as well as the Service Planning Staffs. Here some of the most brilliant British officers spent their days breathing conditioned air and working by daylight lamps, to emerge white-faced and blinking for a few hours in the evening. The C.W.R. was reached by a spiral staircase and was supposed to be safe from bombing attack. Below it, on a still lower level, had been constructed a whole floor of tiny bedrooms for the lesser lights, each with its allocated owner, and it was here that those on late duty would retire when bedtime came.

Mr. Churchill could hardly ever be persuaded to descend to the C.W.R. merely for "sheltering" purposes. He often held Cabinet meetings there in the evenings, after which he would return to the ground-level flat to finish off the evening in his study. I never knew him use his bedroom belowstairs - thick steel shutters guarded the window of his bedroom in the flat, and these he felt sufficient protection.

[Richard Langworth]

Dave- Good grub on the filmscript. I cannot find a "John Evans" in the literature, including Colville's and Martin's memoirs, but "John Evans'" instructions about WSC's requests are on the money. They show how carefully the film was scripted. (The subway/underground scene and the private visit of the King to WSC are pure fiction, but so beautifully done you can forgive them.) 

On a visit to Hillsdale College, Gary Oldman explained how he noticed ridges worn into the arms of the chair in the War Rooms, where WSC constantly drummed his fingernails, and how he tried to work that into his own portrayal--which was masterful.

The video of Oldman's talk at Hillsdale is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyenAuy7wgg

Our review of the film is at: http://bit.ly/2FMlryZ

[Antoine Capet]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your most helpful answers.

Yes - the cast identifies the young man as "John Evans".

A fictitious name, as Richard points out : John Martin in real life ?

There may be legal reasons why the producers did not use his real name
(though they do not hesitate to give that of 'real' politicians).

Who 'Tom Leonard' is in the film will have to remain clouded in mystery for
the time being.

All very puzzling, as I said initially.

As for what Richard writes : "The subway/underground scene and the private

visit of the King to WSC are pure fiction, but so beautifully done you can

forgive them", they form (especially the underground scene) the core of my
discussion in the article, entitled (in French) 'What do the "invented
scenes" in _Darkest Hour_ tell us ?'

And I duly refer to Gary Oldman's interview and the Hillsdale review in it.

Thanks again,

A. Capet
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[Antoine Capet]

RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: Mysterious young man in _Darkest Hour_ filmDear
Dave,

Many thanks for this correct identification of the young man in the film

You mention "Clop" : if you have Elizabeth Nel (née Layton)'s memoirs, there
is a marvellous anecdote about it :

The confusion between the contraption and Kloppe's "fifteen volumes" (p. 14
of the 2007 reprint).

Best wishes,

A.C.
===========

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/007b01d5b9c2%24360440a0%24a20cc1e0%24%40verizon.net.

[Cita Stelzer]

And you can read all about Elizabeth Layton in my recent book, Working With Winston. She always knew what WSC wanted. And I thought it was klop with a K and not a C.

Cita

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[Dave Turrell]

Dear Antoine,

Tom Leonard is either the driver of Winston's car, or a member of his security team, on the occasion when Winston jumps out and disappears on his infamous Underground trip.  It is his one and only mention in the script.

WIDE SHOT of - WINSTON’s CAR, moving slowly through the rainy street. WINSTON, in the back seat, looks out the window at the human traffic - seems like he’s in a gold-fish bowl, disconnected. He watches as -  MEN IN BOWLER HATS and YOUNG WOMEN in SUMMER DRESSES walk to work. As they rush through the rain shielding themselves with umbrellas and newspapers. WINSTON, with an UNLIT CIGAR in his mouth, searches his pockets for a MATCH. But he can’t find his matches. 

When the CAR stops at a RED LIGHT -

- TOM LEONARD hears the car door slam. He turns, looks back, WINSTON has jumped out of his car. Tom Leonard opens his door and stands looking around for Winston, as crowds rush past in the pouring rain.

I agree with you that John Evan was probably John Martin under a different name.  Given the way his attitude towards Miss Layton is described I'm not really surprised they would change it.  It could also be simply an attempt to provide a generic picture of a member of Churchill's private office - which, as I recall, comprised many more than just Martin.

Best,

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat [mailto:church...@googlegroups.com]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/FC40B87F29974009ACE8A5C2975D5D37%40PCAntoine.

[Cita Stelzer]

Are we agreed then that it is clop and not klop?
Cita Stelzer

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat <church...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 2:21 PM
To: church...@googlegroups.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/68048816038C4EC79041E1E1072F7846%40PCAntoine.

[David Riddle]

I don’t think so!

As a an ex-Chartwell volunteer and ‘story’ researcher, we always spelt it ‘klop’. There are many references to Churchill and klop on Google, whereas none relating to ‘clop’. Neither word has a dictionary definition in this context, but the definition of ‘clop’ gives a hint to Churchill’s usage of the word, being the noise made by a horse’s hoof, and that this might be considered similar to the noise made by a hole punch.

Just IMHO.

David Riddle
Mobile: 07966 472340
Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Dec 2019, at 23:14, Cita Stelzer <ci...@irwinstelzer.com> wrote:
>
> Are we agreed then that it is clop and not klop?

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/MWHPR10MB164793CC50671EE087359F68A22E0%40MWHPR10MB1647.namprd10.prod.outlook.com.

[Cita Stelzer]

Thanks, David.
Cheers,
Cita

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[Dave Turrell]

I suspect we may be overthinking this. Whether 'Klip' or 'Clop', I doubt Churchill was thinking of the sound of horses' hooves. He was probably thinking of the sound a hole punch makes.

Given that what we are dealing with is an idiosyncratic onomatopoeic representation of an inanimate object, unless the record shows Churchill spelling it one way or the other, then I would respectfully suggest that there is no 'correct' spelling. I would, however, not personally go for 'Kloppe', as it might lead to in insufficiently klipped pronunciation.

Merry Christmas to one and all!

Dave

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[Antoine Capet]

Dear All,

As a matter of (inconclusive) interest, Elizabeth Nel (née Layton) writes in
her memoirs that Churchill simply said "Gimme Klop" (p. 14 of the 2007
reprint).

With all best wishes for the festive season,

A. Capet
================

-----Message d'origine-----

From: 'Dave Turrell' via ChurchillChat

Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2019 1:49 AM
To: church...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Clop / Klop / Kloppe

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/churchillchat/009c01d5babd%242af65670%2480e30350%24%40verizon.net.

[Antoine Capet]

Dear All,

I am reading the superb vol. 22 (1945-1951) of The Churchill Documents from
end to end, looking for references to Churchill’s views and pronouncements
on “Europe” during that period (with plenty of fresh material found so far,
incidentally), and I chanced upon a passage in a letter which led me to
another subject.

Writing about the proofs of one of the volumes of The Second World War, he
says :

“Neither do I want my particular spelling of Tsar, etc., to be altered in
accordance with modern malpractice.” (p. 1175)

This set me thinking about other examples of “modern malpractice” which he
deprecated, and on reflection the only one that came to mind was Angora /
Ankara (in part because of the cat, as we know).

Total changes of name, like Constantinople / Istanbul, are a different
story.

No doubt List Members can add to this embryonic corpus?

With all best wishes for the festive season,

[Richard Langworth]

Antoine, thanks for the kind words. The final Document Volume 23 is now published and available from the Hillsdale College Bookstore.

I have started a new thread on Churchill amusing, and not exactly PC, remarks on foreign names and pronunciations.