New to this group and CAH

[Raven Urbacke]

Hello,

 

   My name is Saundra. I have 2 dobermans and it looks like we may be starting our 1st journey with CAH.

 

   My male, Moose, who will be 4 in Oct has had increasing ALT levels since last year (ALT in Oct 2014 was 60 w Dr Dobbs, Jan 2015 was 79, May 2015 120, July 2015 114, Aug 2015 210).

 

    Other changes in his bloodwork are: Aug 2014 his Reticulocty's were 0.024 with the % at 0.024 and Aug 2015 we are at 7.6 (low) and 0.1, BUN was 38 (High) in Aug 14 but now 24, GGT in Aug 2014 was 3, Jan 2015 2, Aug 2015 <0, and AMYL in Jan 2015 was 486 (Low), Aug 2015 390 (Low).

 

   While the only sign that we have seen is some aggression towards our female doberman we want to get ahead of this ASAP.

 

   On Friday they will run some more tests and then next week we will be looking at a liver biopsy for him. We are also awaiting updated thyroid results. He has his next cardio holter and echo on Sept 15.

 

   Moose also has 21 seperate allergies, CDA as he is a blue, a littermate that died of confirmed DCM 1 day shy of her 1st birthday but is a super sweet boy.

 

   Currently he is feed raw (1.2 oz liver, 8 oz meat x3, 1.2 oz heart, 1.2 oz other organ, and 3oz ground bone daily), l-caratine for his heart, taurine for his heart, glucosomine condritin for arthrits, 1/4 tsp, coconut oil, dried seeweed plant for his teeth, kefir, whole raw egg 3x/week, raw fish 1x/week, antipoop eating pill (his sister is the poop eater), vertex suppliement,   gets milk thistle 5 days a month - increasing this to daily, added Danamine (Spelling) yesterday (He was on this for a short time back from May 14 2015 to July 4 2015) as well as a host of other supplements that I need to now figure out if he can have or not.

 

    Homeopathic: candida nosode, gaertner bach, phodphorus, and skin irritation relief.

 

    Moose gets frontline and heartguard and is a blood donor.

 

    I need to look at all of this of course.

 

    However right now I am feeling overwhelmed, lost, depressed and confused. There is tons of info and lots of people tell you 20 different directions to go.

 

    I googled and found this group.

 

Saundra

[Linda H. Maine]

Raven, I don't know if anybody's got back to you . Welcome to the group , I'm sorry to say. . I lost my Irish setter seamus a couple of years ago due to liver failure caused by the liver damage that the chronic active hepatitis caused . He also had copper storage disease . I'm not sure where you live, but when the med start getting expensive , diamondback pharmacy in Scottsdale delivers everywhere in the world. There a veterinary compound pharmacy.
The aggression might be because he doesn't feel well . It might not be a change in his personality, but just that he doesn't feel well . So I think that's a good idea that you are getting ahead of it. 

Be sure to let us know what the test results are from Friday's test . Does he have other issues? I was just wondering because of the cardiac halter and echo .

The important thing to remember about C a H is that if the if the liver is sick , then you need to treat the liver as delicately as possible. In other words don't give him foods that are high in proteins or high in complex grain carbs. You want the liver to heal and take it easy while digesting foods.

Organ meats are difficult for his liver to help digest.  For the same reason you don't want to give him whole grains like barley, brown rice. I hated giving my dog white rice, but I knew it was better for his liver . There is a list of foods on the Internet that are high in copper . If he also has copper storage disease, which is a byproduct of CAH , then you really want to make sure you feed him low copper foods . In humans copper storage disease is called Wilson's disease. And a lot of how you treat Wilson's disease is also how you treated in animals.
You were right when you said he's on a lot of herbs and medications that you don't know if he can still have. The important thing to remember is low-protein simple carbs , except vegetables. There are a lot of vegetables that they can eat . But not all .

I am hoping that someone else on the list can tell you about the  advantages or disadvantages about feeding a raw diet with CAH . I don't know how easy it is on his liver. I used to feed Seamus what I called sludge . And it consisted of vegetable broth, green beans, carrots or sweet potato , one chicken breast, and enough white rice to make it the consistency of the dog food . A crock pot full of that used to last about five days . There are other recipes and suggestions on the Internet as well .

I don't know how many people are on this group, but we are all here to listen, support, and help you through this .

linda

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[Raven Urbacke]

Linda,

     Thank you. No you are the 1st to respond. I am sorry to hear about your irish setter.

      I have done some reading and even most raw proponents do not recommend it for CAH dogs. For now until we know i removed the organ and liver from his diet, added milk thistle and Denamarin but kept everything else the same.

     This is what he was eating:  ust wrote what moose gets:

AM:
    Glucosamine Sulfate 500mg
    L-Caritine 500mg
    Taurine 500mg
    Copophagia chew
    8oz raw meat

Lunch:
     1/4 tspn coconut oil
      L-Caritine 1000mg
      3 oz ground bone
      Glucosamine Sulfate 1000mg
      3x/wk raw egg w shell
      1/2 Tblspn Kefir or Yogurt
       Milk Thistle 500mg - added monday
       8 oz raw meat
       1x/wk 2-4oz raw fish
        2 scoops plaque off

1-2 hrs before PM meal Denamarin

PM:
        8oz raw meat
        1.2oz raw liver
        1.2oz raw other organ
         Adding 1.2oz raw heart
         3 tsp vertex
         L-Caritine 500mg
         Glucosamine Sulfate 500mg
         Taurine 500mg

Homeopathy:
          Skin irritation relief: as needed
          Vaccine Balance: as needed
           Phosphorus: 1 weekly
           Gaertner Bach: 1 weekly
           Candida Nosode: 1 weekly

He is at the vet now. He's had a 12 hr fast. Rerunning the blood work, doing a bile test, and clit test in prep for the late afternoon appt w ultrasonographer. There was a cancelation so he gets to possibly get his liver biopsy today.

Yesterday his thyroid came back normal. Fecal clean.

He does not have cardio at this time but it is common in dobes so they are teted annually and because of his littermates death may make him more prone to it.

--

Saundra U

Minnesota

Mother to INTL CH, NAT CH, HONOR CH, URO1 Masaya's Elegant Empress CGC, WAC, ATT, CGCA, RN, BN, PN, BH and Moose CGC, BN, CD, RA the blue Dobie

Across the Bridge Spice, Kipper, Cupid, Baby, Newt, and Robbie our 1st Dobie

Proud to be a member of the United Doberman Club (UDC), Deutscher Verband der Gebrauchshundsportvereine (DVG).

Pedigee Books with: AKC, UDC/AWDF, UKC, IABCA, WCRL

[Melissa Andersen]

Hi Saundra,

I'm so sorry to hear about Moose. We found out earlier this spring that our then 4-year-old (she's now 5) hound/pit mix has CAH. She actually got so sick, so quickly, that she spent 5 days in the hospital. We've been very aggressive with her meds and after months and months of prednisone, Denamarin, Ursodiol (which is a mixture of milk thistle and sam-e), vitamin E, fish oil (which she always took), and an antibiotic (which she's now off), we're finally ALMOST at a normal ALT level. When she was admitted, her ALT was over 3200, and it's now in the low 300s.

It's been hard, but as Linda said, it's important to pay extra special attention to diet. Our Molly has had absolutely no red meat whatsoever, a little bit of poultry, some eggs, some vegetables, but mostly just the prescription food she has to be on until her numbers are stable again. Eventually we'll make her food ourselves, but for now, it's prescription dog food for us. We also have been making sure to continue getting her plenty of exercise, but also plenty of rest and relaxation, and no stress. 

CAH is a scary diagnosis to receive. We were devastated. But try not to spend hours online (like I did!) reading all the bad things. Many dogs live long, happy, healthy lives with CAH, and I truly believe animals sense your feelings, so try to stay positive. There will be ups and downs, but we're all hear to listen. You're clearly a loving dog mom, and Moose is lucky to have you!

Melissa

[Raven Urbacke]

Well guess we won't have answers today:

Well the clotting factor for moose came back fine 1 time and then 1 came back abnormal so now we wait for a call back and reschedule to test that next week.

ALT was 190 on retest.

Saundra U

Mother to INTL CH, NAT CH, HONOR CH, URO1 Masaya's Elegant Empress CGC, WAC, ATT, CGCA, RN, BN, PN, BH and Moose CGC, BN, CD, RA the blue Dobie

Across the Bridge Spice, Kipper, Cupid, Baby, Newt, and Robbie our 1st Dobie

Proud to be a member of the United Doberman Club (UDC), Deutscher Verband der Gebrauchshundsportvereine (DVG).

Pedigee Books with: AKC, UDC/AWDF, UKC, IABCA, WCRL

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[Raven Urbacke]

Moose will be getting a full clotting profile next week before we can move forward on the liver biopsy

Saundra U

Mother to INTL CH, NAT CH, HONOR CH, URO1 Masaya's Elegant Empress CGC, WAC, ATT, CGCA, RN, BN, PN, BH and Moose CGC, BN, CD, RA the blue Dobie

Across the Bridge Spice, Kipper, Cupid, Baby, Newt, and Robbie our 1st Dobie

Proud to be a member of the United Doberman Club (UDC), Deutscher Verband der Gebrauchshundsportvereine (DVG).

Pedigee Books with: AKC, UDC/AWDF, UKC, IABCA, WCRL

[Linda Maine]

Totally forgot about the prescription food! Did that as well. At the same time I had good sister with IBD. Fun.

[Raven Urbacke]

Bile function of the liver results were normal

Saundra U

Mother to INTL CH, NAT CH, HONOR CH, URO1 Masaya's Elegant Empress CGC, WAC, ATT, CGCA, RN, BN, PN, BH and Moose CGC, BN, CD, RA the blue Dobie

Across the Bridge Spice, Kipper, Cupid, Baby, Newt, and Robbie our 1st Dobie

Proud to be a member of the United Doberman Club (UDC), Deutscher Verband der Gebrauchshundsportvereine (DVG).

Pedigee Books with: AKC, UDC/AWDF, UKC, IABCA, WCRL