Prop for Lycoming AEIO-390X

[Andre van Rensburg]

Hi Guys
I have been looking for a suitable propeller for my Lycoming AEIO-390X
engine, but so far only MT have suggested a prop for me (MTV15 or MTV9)
and wondering if any of you have any input?
Would the MTV12 prop not be eqaully suitable for a 210hp engine?
Would the standard Hartzell HC-C2YX-4CF (standard for AEIO-360) be an
option?
Looking for to your comments.
Andre

[Charles]

Have a look at www.whirlwindaviation.com if you are permitted to use a
non-certified prop (experimental category).

The experimental WW 200C aerobatic prop is well suited for engines
producing 200 to 230 hp.

We recently replaced our two bladed Hoffmann on our Laser (AEIO360
pumped to 220hp) with a three bladed Whirlwind variation called a
360Akro. The WW 360Akro is a a 400C series hub with three 200RV
blades.

While we have only had the prop on for a couple of weeks, it is
performing well. Very good low airspeed bite. Outstanding downline
braking. Plus it's very quiet and has excellent ground clearance.

We have the short body Laser variant (around four inches shorter from
the firewall to the prop flange) which allows us to handle the
additional weight of the 360Akro unit (increased from the two bladed
unit's 48lbs to the three bladed 64lbs). Check your forward CG limits
before considering.

.. Charles

[Andre van Rensburg]

Charles
I am thrilled to see a little activity stiil on this forum - many
thanks.
I have actually opted for a MTV-15 propeller and have placed an order
with MT in Germany. Apart from the 14-16 week lead time, I only hear
good things about MT propellers.
Andre

[Kurt Haukohl]

I could be wrong but was not the original diameter 74 inches and is not the MTV-15 an 80 inch diameter?  A direct replacement for the 74 inch was available, but now perhaps just used.  My guess is you'll have trouble driving any 80-82 inch prop with 200 hp.  The 6 cylinder props are about 200mm / 80 inches and require a full 300 hp to drive them.

--
.
Kurt Otto Haukohl
1760 Montara Avenue
Sacramento, California 95835
(916) 825-3102 Nextel 116*968*53
.

[Andre van Rensburg]

Hi Kurt
You make a valid point thank you, but the MTV-15 propeller actually
comes in lengths between 72" and 84" (ordered to size). I opted for a
76' (193cm) as my engine developes 210hp and I will have a CG problem
with the lighter prop. I may have to use a lighter battery and move it
forward if required, but will have to complete the aircraft first to
determine the CG.
Anyhow, I will you use all the advice I can get, do you think 76" may
be a too long?
Andre

[Kurt Haukohl]

OK I think that is a good choice.  I suspect with a true cranked up motor I would be tempted to try the 76 inch.  There was very little risk doing a wheel landing with a 74 inch, but I've watched some pilots hit the short ones on the pavement too. 

[Jam...@fcstone.com]

If I am correct, your Eagle was certified with a specific engine and prop (the standard Hartzell HC-CZYK-4/C7666A-2 I assume).  If you change away from this prop you will have to re-certify the aircraft and go through a 40 hour test period unless you can prove that the engine/ prop combination is proven - then you might get this time reduced to 25 hours.





James M. Burr
816-457-6217 (direct)
816-550-3843 (cell)

"The wise man is the man who knows that he doesn't know."   -   Socrates 470-399 BC

This data and these comments are provided for information purposes only and are not intended to be used for specific trading strategies.  Although all information is believed to be reliable, we cannot guarantee its accuracy or completeness.  Commodity trading involves risks, and you should fully understand those risks before trading.

[KJKi...@aol.com]

James,

 

The Eagle is not certified in the sense of having to conform to a specific equipment list like a Cessna.  Yes, if you use ANY certified engine and ANY certified prop (assume it is a prop for the specific engine used) you can get a 25 hour test period for Experimental Amateur Built category.  If you use ANY uncertified engine (modified stock engine, kit version engine, alternate engine types, foreign made engine) the airplane is required by rule to have a 40 hour test period in AM built category even if you have a certified prop.  Same is true for the Prop, any experimental prop results in 40 hours even if on a certified engine.

 

Sincerely,

Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/
http://www.pittsmodel12.com/

[Andre van Rensburg]

Hello Kevin
Thank you for recommending MT in Germany to me, they have been great.
Not only did the technical staff at MT know my AEIO-390-X engine pretty
well, but the gentleman that helped me has flown the Christen Eagle and
S2B extensively. Being aware that the Eagle normally has a 74" Hartzell
prop fitted, he assured by MT that the 76" MTV15 prop would be best
prop for my engine. I am confident that this prop will work well.
As you mentioned, certification is not an issue with the Eagle.
Although my combination of prop and engine is probably new ground, it's
no where as complex as fitting a 540 engine.
Although the MTV15 is lighter that the Hartzell prop, the engine in
turn is 8 lbs heavier than the standard AEIO-360, so the CG should not
be affected much, but even so, it's nothing that a smaller battery
won't sort out.
Andre

[Jam...@fcstone.com]

Kevin,

The point that I was attempting to make was that once the aircraft was certified with a specific engine and propeller, any change to these will require recertification.

 

The following is an exact quote from the Experimental Aircraft Operating Limitations that the FAA gave me when I certified my Eagle (and must be carried in the aircraft at all times).  The bold letters are the FAA's - not mine.

 

"After incorporating a major change as described in FAR 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to re-establish compliance with FAR 91.319 (b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area.  The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area.  If the major change includes installing a different make and model of engine or propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised form 8130-6 to update the FAA Aircraft Registry.  All operations will be conducted VFR, day only, in a sparsely populated area.  The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours."

Jim

James M. Burr
816-457-6217 (direct)
816-550-3843 (cell)

"The wise man is the man who knows that he doesn't know." - Socrates 470-399 BC

This data and these comments are provided for information purposes only and are not intended to be used for specific trading strategies. Although all information is believed to be reliable, we cannot guarantee its accuracy or completeness. Commodity trading involves risks, and you should fully understand those risks before trading.

-----Christe...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----

To: Jam...@fcstone.com, Christe...@googlegroups.com
From: KJKi...@aol.com
Sent by: Christe...@googlegroups.com
Date: 02/02/2006 06:22AM
Subject: Christen-Eagle Re: Prop for Lycoming AEIO-390X

James,

 

The Eagle is not certified in the sense of having to conform to a specific equipment list like a Cessna.  Yes, if you use ANY certified engine and ANY certified prop (assume it is a prop for the specific engine used) you can get a 25 hour test period for Experimental Amateur Built category.  If you use ANY uncertified engine (modified stock engine, kit version engine, alternate engine types, foreign made engine) the airplane is required by rule to have a 40 hour test period in AM built category even if you have a certified prop.  Same is true for the Prop, any experimental prop results in 40 hours even if on a certified engine.

 

Sincerely,

Kevin Kimball , VP Engineering

[KJKi...@aol.com]

Jim,

 

My understanding is that the original poster is building a new Eagle not converting and existing flying one from engine A to engine B.  You are correct with respect to the Operation Limitations for your airplane.  If you make any changes to your airplane AFTER you have received the op limits and airworthiness certificate, you will need to enter a new test period and evaluate the changes. This applies to each unique airplane and not the series of airplanes in blanket form such as all Eagles.  Each homebuilt is a unique airplane with a unique manufacturer.  So, if you used an AEIO360 200hp and Hartzell 2 blade prop, and another Eagle builder uses a 390 210 hp and an MT, both airplanes will receive a test period, op limits with phase 1 and phase 2 sections, and an AW certificate.  However, the op limits for airplane A do not apply to airplane B. 

 

Sincerely,

Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering

[Rick McShane]

Just a comment about the recent discussion about props and engines for the Christen Eagle (or any experimental for that fact).  The operating limitations are the critical factor and for some experimentals may hold surprises.

 

For example, on my plane the Phase I operating limitations defined a test period of 10 hours.  Likewise, for my plane, no repairman’s certificate is required for me to work on the aircraft.   On the other hand any changes as defined by 21.93 invalidates the special airworthiness certificate and the registration. Turns out there is a list of oddities in the limitations. 

 

 The one thing the local FSDO made clear was that until those limitations were replaced, I better follow them to the letter.   

 

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