Anybody Still Running an "A" Hub Hartzell Prop?

[Cameron Grossl]

I recently picked up a nice, Hartzell prop with about 1300 hours TTSN, good blades, and a nice spinner, for a real nice price.  It's got the dreaded "A" hub that only has 100 hours on it.  I have checked in to the costs of upgrading to the "B" hub.  They're pretty ridiculous.  Since this prop is going on an experimental, I don't have to comply with AD's, but I am concerned with safety.  So, I was wondering if I could just run this prop as is and then get eddy current inspections at annual.  I've got a prop shop near by that will do them with the prop on the airplane.  Is anybody out there running an Eagle with an "A" hub?  Have you had any issues?  Has anybody heard of anyone who had a catastrophic failure with an "A" hub?

Thanks,
Cameron

[cjw7...@airmail.net]

Cameron,

I used to have an 'A' hub on my S1T, I have a B now following a change of the prop. From what I remember, all that was then required was an inspection of the hub by an A&P every 50 hrs. You may be able to find an A&P who would let you take the spinner off and back on after the inspection. The A&P only needed to inspect the hub and make the log book entry. It really was not a great deal on my plane that is certified aerobatic, not experimental. If you are concerned with safety that may be the best way to go.

I would also advise you to check weather indeed you do not need to comply with ADs. On an experimental plane the builder may be able to make inspections and make the logbook entry, but it may be that inspections are required. From what I vaguely remember experimental planes must also be kept in the airworthy condition. The AD specifies exactly what needs to be checked, and you may be able to do the check and the entry yourself. If you are correct about not having to comply, and you are only concerned with safety, you may be able to learn what checks you need to do and be perfectly safe by doing those checks.

Regards

cjw

cell:       +1(281)497-2299

fax:        +1(281)661-1234

cjw7...@airmail.net

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[Jeff Pyne]

Cameron,

 

The following statement was emailed to me from hartzell by

Kevin M. Ryan
Product Support Representative
Hartzell Propeller Inc.
Phone: 937.778.4379
Fax: 937.778.4391
Email: techs...@hartzellprop.com

 

 

you need your hub replaced to comply with AD 2001-23-08 (based on my serial number)

 
The AD says
 
Hartzell Inc ( )HC-( )2Y( )-( ) propeller models installed on Piper PA-32 series aircraft with Textron Lycoming 540 series engines that are rated at 300 HP or higher, or installed on Pilatus Britten Norman or Britten Norman BN-2 series aircraft with Textron Lycoming 540 series engines, or installed on any aircraft certificated in the acrobatic category, or installed on any aircraft that has ever been used for agricultural operations. This AD does not apply to Hartzell Propeller Inc.
( )HC-( )2Y( )-( ) propeller models with the suffix letter "B" at the end of the hub serial number. This AD requires initial and repetitive eddy current inspections of propeller hub for cracks, and replacement of hub if cracks are found. This AD requires replacement of certain serial-numbered hubs at next overhaul or at specified intervals
 
The AD continues with

To prevent failure of the propeller hub resulting from cracks, that can cause blade separationand subsequent loss of aircraft control, accomplish the following:
 
Benny Davis said an Eagle was doing aerobatics over the ocean and this series of props came apart taking the engine with it. The pilot bailed and parachuted down, but the eagle ended up in the water.
 
Needless to say we want to comply with all AD's! The guy at Hartzell has been really helpfull. The problem in manufacturing was only in the hub and doing aerobatics didn't help the situation.
 
Jeff
 

---

From: cameron...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Christen-Eagle Anybody Still Running an "A" Hub Hartzell Prop?
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 21:40:20 -0400
To: jeff...@hotmail.com

Sounds Good. I'll ask Benny about it too. He's making a cowling and rigging kit for me right now. 

On Jul 14, 2014, at 9:33 PM, Jeff Pyne <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'll send you a drawing of the B hub so that you can see the differences

--- Original Message ---

From: "Cameron Grossl" <cameron...@gmail.com>
Sent: July 14, 2014 6:30 PM
To: "Jeff Pyne" <jeff...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Christen-Eagle Anybody Still Running an "A" Hub Hartzell Prop?

Wow,  what happened?  I guess that answers my question. 

On Jul 14, 2014, at 8:54 PM, Jeff Pyne <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Cameron,
 
I know of one eagle that ended up in the ocean after an a hub catastrophic failure......
 
I have a factory new prop from aviat with the b hub. I have a new a hub and will be replacing it
before the first flight.
 
Jeff
661-313-7354
 

---

Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 13:52:50 -0700
From: cameron...@gmail.com
To: christe...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Christen-Eagle Anybody Still Running an "A" Hub Hartzell Prop?

[Cameron Grossl]

Well, I've gotten quite a few reply's on this....more than I thought I would actually.  Sounds like there have been a few catastrophic failures and that's enough for me to not want to fool with trying to use the "A" hub.  I was hoping that this was one of those knee jerk AD reactions from the FAA, but sounds like there may have been some good data behind it. 

With all that said, if anyone has or knows of a serviceable "B" hub anywhere, please let me know.

Thanks,
Cameron

[cjw7...@airmail.net]

Hi Everybody,

Here is the web link to AD 2001-23-08 on the FAA website:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/EBA0AE4E9806FF2F86256B090063A4BC?OpenDocument&Highlight=2001-23-08

With regard to my earlier comments on my S1T, I note that those were related to an older AD, that only required visual checks. My prop was replaced in 2000.

And here is another link that looks to me relevant at a first glance (a later AD):

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/6b6b68153b98376a8625765c005290eb/$FILE/2009-22-03.pdf

Regards

cjw, N49330 (S1T)

cell:       +1(281)497-2299

fax:        +1(281)661-1234

cjw7...@airmail.net

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[Kurt Haukohl]

I've been very liberal with the AD application to experimental,
however Monty Barrett explained it to me sort of like this.
If my engine was say a BFG-9000 and not wearing a serial number plate
that says Lycoming, then the AD's might not apply. The propeller is a
little harder than that however as this was certified. I suppose one
could grind off all the serial numbers and make some minor
modification to squeeze by but my windows lawyer can be pretty smart.

The cleanest defense is that...., "it was like that when I bought it....".
.
.
Kurt Otto Haukohl
PO Box 88681
Tukwila, Washington
98138-2681
Office: (425) 917-6740
Facsimile: (425) 572-5628
iPhone: (916) 825-3102

[Ron Rice]

Anyone out there have an aerobatic Hartzell Prop with the B Hub (or just a B Hub) for sale?

 

A friend is looking for one to use on a 360 powered Skybolt.

 

Ron Rice

.

[andrew blight]

If you have an "A" hub replaced with a "B" hub does the repetitive eddy current testing go away?  Is there a different hub model that will remove the repetitive inspection requirements?

Thanks

Andy